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Caryer: Normal Player Development?

  • http://ohiostate.247sports.com/Article/Caryer-Normal-Player-Development-70462

    Basketball columnist Lee Caryer looks at the hit-and-miss nature of player development Thad Matta has experienced as coach at Ohio State.

    LeeCaryer

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    Follow me on Twitter @SteveHelwagen

    SteveHelwagen

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    SingaporeBuck

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    jlh009

  • Good point on what Matta has done. Taylor won 7 Big Ten titles between 1960-71. Between 1971-2004, OSU won 4 titles (1991, 1992, 2000 and 2002).

    Matta arrived in 2004-05 and in 8 years, he has 5 titles and two Final Fours.

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    SteveHelwagen

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    SingaporeBuck

  • I agree with your assessment totally. In addition, bringing in 5 or 6 recruits in one class (with only a couple of seniors in the program) is bound to generate transfers. I would prefer to bring in 2 or 3 players per class and have a more normal rotation of players coming in and going out. I know with players leaving early for the NBA, it's tough to predict the staffing needs and I can't blame Matta for his latest recruiting stategy. I do think the bench play could have been expanded more at times during this season, but that probably wouldn't have change the outcome of these transfers. Keeping and developing Ross and Williams is key for the futrue of OSU basketball success for the next two years.

    lanpar

  • Great article!
    I understand that the possibility exists that a Mississippi State starter may transfer to OSU. Is that fact or fiction? I think with the ten young Men who will return next Season, the Buckeyes have the possibility of being a very good Team. But, (and by the way I think the world of Thad Matta) Matta needs to play all ten guys significant minutes. In my opinion, they are all good players (some of them will be great - Craft, Smith, Thomas and Williams, and hopefully others). But all ten must play to develop and unless all ten develop, there will be at least one game, possibly more, that we will lose because the right guy was not available and ready at the critical time. Scott, Thompson, Ross, Ravenal and McDonald all need to play develop and become assets not just bench sitters.

    pdan46

  • Consider that the solution may extend the problem, e.g., if Ross or Williams has a great year, then he might go to the NBA. That is why the baseball rule - play pro immediately or play minimum of three years college - is so badly needed.

    LeeCaryer

  • Let's not forget that these players have endless opportunity to develop in practice and in the summer. The last two years, the non-starters have had a chance to play against some of the best players in the nation every day in practice. This staff charts all practice shots, films practice, etc. The players have to earn playing time in the game during practice. The great thing about Matta is that he has shown he will let you earn playing time with defense over offense. He always plays the best players and he wins. I suspect if he spent more time worrying about developing players that weren't performing in practice, he would probably win less and then he would be having different articles written about him.

    Schony14

  • Interesting piece Lee. Matta would be wise to take more developmental players that will fill in the gaps when NBA prospects inevitably leave early.

    Instead, we've seen Matta fill in the gaps with below level prospects in a rush for depth. The only coach who has consistently been able to replace NBA defections is Callipari at Kentucky. For the rest of college basketball, it's not a sustainable strategy.

    Some games this year, Lenzelle was awful in, but those games allowed him to grow his game. I don't think Matta needs a deep bench for the tournament, but these regular season fluff games are a great way to teach these young players in actual game situations.

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    Cleveland Orchestra Baby!! World's greatest!! The Brown's wet dream is to be them.

    Pula_86

  • As always great analysis. I think that each transfer and departures have to be examined individually though. The "One and Dones" are self explanatory. Others need to be reviewed and in my opinion usually stem from one of several reasons. One, the recruit is not properly presented with his opportunity as viewed by the Staff. Two, the recruit is part of a class of 4-5 in which it is reasonable to expect that not all will be four year contributors. Three, the recruit is presented with the situation of being a big fish in a small pond in which he could excel based on raw talent into a situation of being a small fish in a big pond where there is no escaping competing and hard work. In these instances it is likely there will be at best a 50% success ration because half of this group is not willing to work hard and doesn't even know what hard work is. Matta and Staff do a great job of identifying top talent but must self-appraise how good of job they are doing of presenting the facts to the recruit and giving them sufficient game time to develop in their first two years. I do agree that it might be more adviseable to position ourselves to recruiting classes of 3 each year rather than the influx of 4-5 every other year. I realize that early the Oden class presented him no real ulternatives but it is time to balance that out a bit.

    dbuckeye44

  • LeeCaryer said...

    Consider that the solution may extend the problem, e.g., if Ross or Williams has a great year, then he might go to the NBA. That is why the baseball rule - play pro immediately or play minimum of three years college - is so badly needed.

    Nice write-up Lee, as always!

    I like the baseball rule and I really think the 'one year rule' is hurting college basketball. It doesn't make much sense to me, but it does help out the NBA in determining talent rather than just potential. Although there are just as many kids leaving early now as there was a few years ago before the rule.

    I have no problem with kids moving on and pursuing basketball elsewhere. Transfers are healthy, to an extent, because like you said it doesn't help players toiling on the bench. It also gives the player an opportunity to play on the court during games, rather than just practice. Although, every team needs bench players to practice and get better everyday. I'm not surprised to see two transfers this year especially the 'log jam' effect that is going on right now with so many kids being the same relative age (FR and SO).

    I'm not sure Coach Matta and Co. have a problem developing players. Look at the guys who have been here 3 and 4 years and they are fairly successful college players that play sound basketball for the most part (Willy Buford Clause). I have no doubt that if Sibert and Weatherspoon would have stayed 4 years, they too would have become solid contributers and players.

    Go Bucks!!

    whvball

  • I don't believe the reserves earned alot of time. The guards seemed to play timid and afraid to shoot so while they were in it was like we had 4 players on offense. The defense also knew that and sagged and helped out when those players had the ball. Scott started to look more comfortable at the end of the year but was still a liability at foul line and when shot clock was running down. I prayed that Syracuse didn't foul Scott or Thompson at the end of that game when they were protecting the lead. Thompson was great when he leaped over people. I expect Scott and Thompson this year to have more confidence this year and Quintin to work over the summer to step into Buffords spot.

    orlbuckeye

  • Flat out one of the best articles I've read on this site - definitely the best one on basketball. Terrific analysis by Lee. Great, great job.

    You can't handle the truth

    mrmrclark

  • Lee- All your articles are great, but this was the best. You analyze each of the possible issues that cause the transfers and provide excellent reasoning behind all your comments. I'm like everyone else and believe that Coach Matta is the best coach we could possibly have and his successes prove that, but I would hope that he and the staff reads this article and learns from it.

    buckeye7119

  • The key is better evaluation of a recruit, and tell thm up front that you EXPECT THEM TO to be here at least three years or don't come to OSU. "Young man OSU is about the team, not individuals, TEAMS WIN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS ... INDIVIDUALS DO NOT! If you want to be a winner and develop your skills for the NBA, you need thre years of Big Ten BB."

    This post was edited by shs1950 on 4/17/2012 at 12:23 PM

    shs1950

  • Lee,I don't see this as anything but a slap in the face to Coach Matta. What is your point?Can any OSU coach ever get an"Atta Boy" great year? Thereare dozens of schools and coachs that would love to have just a semblence of OSU,coach Matta's success.Who exactly came and left this program then set D1 basketball on fire?This is just hate.Maybe because your so damm smart on how to do it you should get your resume' in to coach at a great D1 institution.You would get a significant pay raise into the Million plus dollar range instead of trying to make some byline hack job for 400 aweek.Piss off.Our basketball and football coachs should be given a huge hand of appreciation for what they have done and what they are doing and all that they bring to us even though all of us never want to see them lose ever and beat every body by a hundred points.Another thing ,those that leave are practiceing every day,I suppose generally 1s against 2s the coachs see what is going on with there effort and ability.You don't.Arm chair it all the way.This so pisses me off that you can get paid for this trash,I'me jealous.Again Piss off.

    georgianut

  • georgianut - What a jerk!! What do you know about basketball? Doesn't seem like much. Lee is right on with his comments - Matta should be the recruiting coordinator, and leave the coaching to someone else. He's no Pitino or Calipari, for sure. They are real coaches with basketball skills.

    Matta's titles were won on the backs of kids who were only here for the one-year free ride. I would rather have the Bo Ryan successes any day . . .

    This post was edited by jdbucksct on 4/17/2012 at 1:24 PM

    jdbucksct

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    rencox

  • Great read Lee!

    I'm thankful the great effort and sacrifice Coach Matta's and his coaches make year around. Very few know the time and travel involved. I said before in another thread, I love Coach Matta's program. I also love the way Coach Matta embraces the success of the football program, the past success of Buckeye basketball, and he isn't afraid to compete at the highest level.

    Agreed, transfers can be a healthy thing, and I'm not in a position to know what progress has or hasn't been made in the case of our transfers. The fact that our top players have done so very well while most of the transfers have not done particularly well after leaving tOSU is a credit to the coaches evaluation.

    Unfortunately, transfers can also be a waste of investment if a coach AND a player has made progress together. The coach will have to start a new player over in his system, and the transfer will have to start over in a new system, too. A strong bench seems to be a rarity and a valuable commodity these days. IMO, relying on an 8-9 man rotation in big games is ideal, or if a team plays uptempo, a 9-10 man rotation is ideal. Even with that, there will always be a couple of potential transfers on the bench.

    brutus00

  • Lee; You clearly put a lot of thought into every one of your articles. Thank you!

    hinghambuckeye

  • jdbucksct said...

    georgianut - What a jerk!! What do you know about basketball? Doesn't seem like much. Lee is right on with his comments - Matta should be the recruiting coordinator, and leave the coaching to someone else. He's no Pitino or Calipari, for sure. They are real coaches with basketball skills.

    Matta's titles were won on the backs of kids who were only here for the one-year free ride. I would rather have the Bo Ryan successes any day . . .

    Is Lee really saying this: "Matta should be the recruiting coordinator, and leave the coaching to someone else. He's no Pitino or Calipari, for sure. They are real coaches with basketball skills." It is shocking the lack of respect Matta gets on these boards. He is a great coach, really solid guy and has done more at OSU in 8 years than we have seen in the the last several decades combined. All of this has come without a hint of any off the court problems. Also, it's odd to say that Calipari is a real coach and then follow-up the next paragraph with this statement: "Matta's titles were won on the backs of kids who were only here for the one-year free ride."

    How many 25+ win seasons, final 4's and big ten titles does a guy need to get respect? Matta has made OSU an elite basketball school and any reasonable examination would demonstrate that we weren't that close before he came.

    Schony14

  • Schony14, you are correct to raise that question, as I said nothing of the sort, nor do I wish to do so.

    LeeCaryer

  • ...very thoughtful piece...darn good writing.

    NWObucknut