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On Braxton's sick 1-yard TD run, PSU has been bitching and moaning about Fragel holding Mauti. However, I've replayed this about 20-30 times and in slow motion and what I see is not holding. Fragel has him outleveraged, but Fragel's hands remained INSIDE Mauti's arms the entire time, and he keeps his left arm inside Mauti's right arm, like an armbar, but you can see Fragel's hand and he is not clutching his jersey at all. When Mauti realizes he can't get to Miller and tries to get free from Fragel, he goes under Fragel and it looks like Fragel gets the back of his jersey, but that was only because of the move Mauti made. I know this doesn't matter at this point, but I'd like to know what you think. Have you looked at it and what do you say?
The Father, The Son... well, it's the
The Holy Trinity... as I see it.
Really? I saw it on the replay when the announcers talked about the PSU coaches being upset, and it looked like a missed call to me. Maybe the refs were as mesmerized with Brax's run as I was. LOL.
If you say you've watched it 20 times and didn't see it, then I'll have to go back and watch again. I thought it looked ovbious - kinda like when Hawk was held on the Williams TD in 2005.
Nope - you're correct. I had assumed that Fragel wrapped his arm around Mauti's back and pulled him down. In fact, he does keep his arms inside the shoulders, and the arm you see across Mauti's back is Mauti's because he can't shed the block. I stand corrected. Helluva block.
Braxton Miller with the amazing play against Penn State
There were multiple missed calls going both ways..Nate was held multiple times on the edge, so I think it evens out....either way, no way was Brax going to be denied there...
The problem is the announcers. Even Spielman. I love the guy, but they wouldn't shut up about missed holds. And they were wrong on tons. They were making casual observations. The whole time I'm thinking "great, not the announcers are providing PSU excuses".
But there was no hold. In fact, most of the claimed "missed calls" were BS. And on the punt, Haynes was held. The replay showed it. But Spielman said the defender was pushing Haynes to the ground when Haynes was diving at him. But thats not what happened at all. The defender had his hands inside the shoulders of Haynes and he was pulling Haynes down and stepping back. It looked like a wrestling move.
The announcers kept giving PSU fans BS ammunition and it was pissing me off.
I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters.
- Frank Lloyd Wright (1868-1959)
using Zona's video, at the 14 second mark you see Fragel's right hand with a tight grasp on the jersey and lifts up on it. Mauti is off-balance to begin with but can't break free of the jersey grab. It may have made little difference on the grand scheme of things because Fragel was on top of him with his weight so hold or no hold Mauti probably won't make the play.
..and if this is what PSU fans want to blame the loss on then let them stew in excuses. If we wanted to, we'd find 20 holds on PSU that weren't called but to them that doesn't matter.
I have no doubt at all Speilman does that as part of his over-zealousness to make the audience know he's not biased in the game. Any other game I really don't think he starts babbling about those kind of calls like the one on Haynes' defender.
Unfortunately I think we got away with one there. If you watch closely his right hand has a hold of the jersey. Still an amazing run.
The main problem that the PSU fans have is the call on the punt and the non call on the goal line. PSU fans are saying that the call on the punt was wrong. If that is the case, then what Fragel did on the goal line is fine by their own definition. If what was called on the punt was correct (and they are bitching it is not) then Fragel should have been called and it was missed. Instead, they want BOTH calls to go their way. They literally sounds like idiots arguing for one and bitching about the other.
OSU got away with holding all night, I just contribute it to good coaching showing these guys how to hold without making it look so obvious.
If you watch the PSU OLine, they got away with holding all night too. The PSU fans just don't want to admit it.
FYI - Holding doesn't mean grasping the jersey. Holding literally means holding someone back from the play. According to the rules:
"An illegal action where one player keeps another from advancing by grabbing him and holding him back."
That was not what happened.
If you are square and driving, like he was, and your hand is clinching the jersey, that is allowed. If you are separated and your hand is clinching the jersey and you are not driving. Then that is holding. Mauti was being driven out of the play. Fragel was square on him and driving. Good no call and good block.
Fragel kept his left hand under the right arm of Mauti. It really looks like he grabbed him but Fragel kept his right hand in front and left hand under Mauti's right hand. Is that holding if he leveraged him in this manner?
Below is a great explanation of why and when they call holding:
Holding is easily the most controversial call in football. Fans see holding on every play, then wonder why the referees don't call it. If you take into account the point of attack, and the concepts of advantages and disadvantages, it's easier to understand.
One other important item on holding. Officials realize that offensive linemen hold defenders, but it's the defenders responsibility to show the hold. In other words, it's not enough for the defender to stand there being held. The defender must make an attempt to move away from his blocker, to go after the ball, fight off the block, and demonstrate that the offensive player is getting an advantage.
There are six different types of offensive holding.
Tackling a player - self-explanatory.
Takedown - the best example is an offensive lineman who has a defensive lineman at the shoulders, then does a body twist to take the defender to the ground or throw him off balance.
Pullover - The best example is that of a defensive bull rush which knocks the offensive player down and the offensive lineman pulls defensive down on top of him.
Hook and Restrict - the offensive player gets beat to the outside and sticks his arm out or uses an arm bar to restrict a defensive player.
Grab and Restrict - self-explanatory
Jerk and Restrict - instead of moving feet, pulling the defender around with the hands.
Another key to remember - holding is usually not called on double teams. The exception is when a defender beats a double team and gets held. Usually these are hook and restrict or grab and restrict holds.
If youve ever wondered how and why officials call holding, then wonder no more. Corn Nation explains some of the more controversial calls in football.
This post was edited by playmea 21 months ago
were talking psu fans here, the ones stating how they didn't want meyer anyways, and how mcgloin was in comparison to Tom Brady. Were 9-0 and our D (yeah the one mcgloin was going to tear up all night because we have no DB's) stepped up huge last night. Lets continue to enjoy this magical season and not talk about their fans anymore. Calls went both ways and lets be honest if bryant catches those two int's this isnt even a game.
From the official NCAA Rules Handbook:
2. The hand(s) shall be open with the palm(s) facing the frame of the opponent or closed or cupped with the palms not facing the opponent (A.R. 9-3-3-I-IV and VI-VIII).
PENALTY—10 yards. Penalties for Team A fouls behind the neutral zone are enforced from the previous spot. Safety if the foul occurs behind Team A’s goal line. [S42].
b. Holding or illegal obstruction by a teammate of the ball carrier or passer applies to Rule 9-3-3-a:
1. The hand(s) and arm(s) shall not be used to grasp, pull or encircle in any way that illegally impedes or illegally obstructs an opponent.
2. The hand(s) or arm(s) shall not be used to hook, clamp or otherwise illegally impede or illegally obstruct an opponent.
By the letter of the law, you can't grab the jersey. The first item specifically says "open palms" when facing the frame of the opponent. That said, every lineman grabs jersey on every play.
Playmea's article is how it's generally interpreted. Again, another example of the official rules stating one thing, but enforced differently.
Regardless, He wasn't going to get #5 down anyways.....
"Your Mouth Keeps Signing Checks that Your Body Can't Cash"
It reminds me of Wisconsin's O line when they were really good. Always holding, but never called for it. That's a sign of good coaching IYAM.
PSU can complain all they want but Nate and Spence were held on the edge all night. As usual though, you see only what you want to see.
actually I turned the sound off because it was so aggravating...Spiels goes out of his way to show he isn't partial and Will M is a buckeye hater...
I think the problem with holding is the Ref official. Not to say he is not doing his job by concentrating on the QB but he seldoms gets involved with calling penalties unless it's blatant and out in the open. IMHO i see so much holding near the Ref but all he does is keeps his eye on the QB. For holding calls to increase he has to get more involved.
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