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Since the trade the cavs are 5-2 beating the best team in the nba in OKC and beating a solid boston squad. The bench is deaper. Moving fwd do you think tbis was a good trade to help rebuild the programe? Personaly I like the trade. What's your thoughts?
This was an absolutely monster trade for the Cavs. Marcus S is a very good player that was behind possibly the best pair of big men in the NBA. The steal was Wayne E, he is a guy that can finally strech the defense which is what we needed. On top of everything we got a first round pick that by 2018 or 2019 while be fully used... All for Jon L. Plus with our pick and all the trade assets and the cap flexibility, Cavs are very close.
I don't think this trade was necessarily about the players received...and in terms of competing for a championship with the big boys, we're still not close.
First round pick for Jon Leuer, however...that's big.
Well played Cavs, well played.
~ Starve the Ego l Feed the Soul ~
I agree that the trade was about a first round pick. However, you cannot underestimate the value of the two players received. M. Speights takes minutes that went to John Luehr or Samardo Samuels. Plus, he's a five year veteran who has played winning basketball in the NBA. Wayne Ellington has taken Boobie Gibson's minutes. Gibson has become oft-injured and was always 3-4 inches shorter than the guy he had to guard. Ellington has a sweet stroke and obviously knows how to play team basketball. The other piece, while not in this trade, was rescuing Shaun Livingston off of the scrap heap. 6'7 defender who can handle the ball and guard 3 positions took the minutes of Donald Sloan/Jeremy Pargo. Nuff' said.
Now, I hope the rumors of them flipping Speights does not come to fruition. Eventually you have to start winning games. He is obviously a key piece to that winning, especially with Varejeo out. If you pick up another late round 1st pick 3 years down the line for him, so what? We have those in spades. We need players, and you hope that a late round pick can become a rotation player capable of a double/double every night. Well, he already does that. We have plenty of cap space to extend his deal and still save room for whoever may want to come here (cough...cough) in the future. Guys don't come to a team to play with future draft picks. They come to play with guys that can ball and help them win games.
Would love to see them sign speights. Looks like they will be picking 6-10. A good thing about that instead of picking earlier is that it will free up $1 or $2 mill/year that they could give speights or another fa.
The trade was for 3 reasons...
1. The 1st rd pick
2. Cap flexibility for 2014 (all 3 guys have short contracts) for an all out assault for Lebron
3. Depth in the interim
As well as Speights has played I still think they may move him before the deadline. (Seriously hope not)
I wouldn't call this team "close" by any stretch....but they are much improved.
The future is bright.
This post was edited by BuckeyeREF 17 months ago
This isn't a trade where it jumps out at you as some blockbuster where you picked up a Star Player or anything. But this is obviously proving to be a homerun trade because it has provided things they absolutely needed. They needed a big man. And not only did they get on in Mareese Speights... they got one who is obviously underrated and has been stuck behind other players his entire (young) career so far. With the increased minutes, we're seeing a guy who can really play! Plus he's genuinely excited to be here. Wayne Ellington is another guy who needed some more minutes and he has been exactly the type of player they needed coming off the bench. He is producing with the increased minutes here as well.
Having said that, the most important thing these two have brought is a veteren presence (From a winning program in Memphis) to this extremely young group. This team was in desperate need of these type of players who are filling important roles and also providing some veteren leadership.
Add in the fact that they ALSO got a 1st round pick for doing the Grizz a favor on this salary dump.. and this is a homerun trade for the Cavs.
And while I'm so pleased to see this team taking huge strides over the past 7 games... I'm actually worried they're going to make too much progress here down the stretch. They NEED a top 5 pick this year. It's obviously an odd situation.. I want them to improve and win games.. but at the same time they need a Top 5 pick and aren't going anywhere this year since they started off so poorly.
I couldn't disagree more with this. I never root for my teams to lose... but the 1-2M a year is a total joke. In the NBA you can go over the cap to re-sign your own players, which Dan Gilbert has no problem with. You win in the NBA with Star players. You're much less likely to get one in the 6-10 range. They need as high of a draft pick as they can get this year. I know with the Lottery that's technically possible pretty much wherever your record falls... but if you have the worst record you're locked into a Top 4 Pick. 2nd worst record you're locked into a Top 5 pick.. and so on and so forth.. so there is SOME assurance to getting a better pick when you have a bad record. I guess all I'm saying is - this team isn't going anywhere this year. I want them to develop and improve.. but I don't want them winning meaningless games either. There's only a few players coming out this year with real STAR potential.. and I really want to see the Cavs get one of those guys.
The first round pick was the key. So it was automatically a great trade. We bought a 1st round pick. As far as the players, it could end up being a good trade or very bad. Mo and Wayne have been playing so well we are winning games and setting us up for a lower pick in the draft. The key here is Mo has a player option for $4.5m next year. The way he is playing, he is not going to pick it up. Say we don't resign him because he gets a $10-12m a year deal from someone. Now we basically won a handful more games because of him, get a pick in the 8-15 range instead of 1-5 and he leaves. That is why we might trade him if we think he will want too much as an FA. But the down side of that, is how that affects Kyrie's attitude about the commitment to winning. Trading Mo says we are tanking. There are a bunch of variables to this. Because Mo is playing himself into a 3yr/$27m deal. Personally I resign him and dump Andy ASAP. Andy's body is a wreck and Mo could start for us. Zeller is a 18-25 min a night guy IMO.
On a side note, how sick was that Florida team that Mo was coming off the bench. We don't realize how awesome that Oden/Conley team was cause we lost to Florida. That Florida team was one of the best in the last 25 yrs. It had 4 high end NBA players on that team in Horford, Noah, Mo and Brewer.
I was waiting for somebody to hit on the cap flexibility and you nailed it. Outside of the number 1 pick, that was the biggest part of this trade. The free agent class of '14 is stacked, including LeBron. Cavs are putting themselves into a position to be a up-and-coming young team by then (strong finish this year and a decent team next year with 1-2 more first rounders added in), and then they'll have a boatload of money to spend in the summer of '14.
Personally, I don't think they trade Speights this year. At worst, they can get 1.5 good years out of Speights and Ellington before letting their contracts expire and using that money towards a key FA. Cavs will also have the cap flexibility to extend either or both if they play themselves into "core" pieces. And there's no reason they can't trade them at next year's deadline for picks or other expiring contracts. Lot's of options for the Cavs, which is why I don't buy the trade rumors for this year.
Such a good point. That OSU team is underrated because it didn't win it all, but that Florida team was stacked. Honestly, I still think we should have won that game. Oden was a beast that game but every other player had a terrible shooting night. We hit the wide open shots we hit all year and we win that game by a solid margin imo.
They didnt gain any tax flexibility with this trade. They owed Leuer nothing after this year. It didnt hurt them for '14 though. Speights can opt out after this year and Ellington is a FA, thats why there is talk about trading them now.
Yes, they didn't gain flexibility in this trade but they added two assets without losing the flexibility, and outside of the draft pick that was the biggest part of the trade.
Good points on the Speights and Ellington contracts. Despite the rumors, I still don't expect Speights to opt out of his contract (he's in a position to put up career high minutes for the next 1.5 years leading into his FA year). Ellington is under club control as a restricted FA and the Cavs have plenty of room to make a qualifying offer to keep him around for 2013-14 if they want.
If they get blown away with a trade, of course they take it, but I just don't think the Cavs are forced into trading either at the deadline.
They got a young improving very good shooter, a young improving and hungry big man whose athletic and can shoot the ball which fills their biggest void,and they got a first-round draft pick a mediocre team, and they gave up virtually nothing. This was one of the most lopsided trades that I can remember.
thats what i was feeling, i think the cavs got the best end in the deal. and persoanly i think speights should be geeting more playing time. hes very good. hopefully more practice with the team will gain more playing time, hes playing very well and tough inside the paint
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