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Reply

I think Shannon Scott Is Our Third Best Player

  • pondo171 said...

    OSU's game is conducive to creating turnovers and scoring in transistion...Scott is at his best playing uptempo, using his quickness and creating for others. Against good teams that don't turn the ball over he is netrualized. His poor shooting skills and ineffectiveness to finish at the basket becomes a liability...OSU's half court offense is painful to watch. Why do you think it's very difficult for them to get good looks? No inside presence with poor perimeter shooting is not a good combination. OSU is very easy to defend. Unfortunately they only need to focus on DT...

    I agree 100% with what you are saying about their offense being driven by their defense.

    My point is our half court offense is more painful to watch when Craft is running it vs. Shannon. THAT is why it is difficult to get good looks. I still do not know why ANY team plays us man to man....and when they do go zone, Shannon is better equipped to create than Craft.

    Craft cannot create like Shannon and you reference Shannons poor shooting....what about Craft's? Can you tell me anyone that can shoot consistently outside of DT?

    The point is Shannon gives others a better chance to get open looks. I am not in any way knocking Craft....he is an unbelievable asset to the team but he is not a true point guard. Craft was better when we had ACTUAL weapons on the perimeter AND sully inside. We do not have that now which means we need someone to create opportunites.

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    bcroft

  • Hey I both want and hope Scott continues to improve but I've never seen a college player miss as many layups as Scott. Well there was a OSU forward in the late 60s name Smith who may have been worse but he only played 10 min. a game.

    bcbuck

  • bcroft said...

    I agree 100% with what you are saying about their offense being driven by their defense.

    My point is our half court offense is more painful to watch when Craft is running it vs. Shannon. THAT is why it is difficult to get good looks. I still do not know why ANY team plays us man to man....and when they do go zone, Shannon is better equipped to create than Craft.

    Craft cannot create like Shannon and you reference Shannons poor shooting....what about Craft's? Can you tell me anyone that can shoot consistently outside of DT?

    The point is Shannon gives others a better chance to get open looks. I am not in any way knocking Craft....he is an unbelievable asset to the team but he is not a true point guard. Craft was better when we had ACTUAL weapons on the perimeter AND sully inside. We do not have that now which means we need someone to create opportunites.

    Craft and Scott are very similar in half court sets but I will give the edge to Craft because he does finish better and has proven to hit the open shot more frequently. Teams plays us man to man with very little help defense because we have no inside presence. Sullinger made everybody better around him and until Amir steps up we will struggle against the good teams...

    pondo171

  • It is hard for either Scott or Craft to finish at the rim because the bigs do not position them selves well at all to get a pass on the drive. They put them selves out of the play and let their defender help on the driver. You would then think, OK, that leaves them free for a backside offensive rebound if their guy leaves to help. But that rarely happens because again of bad positioning and not boxing out. Williams does a better job than Ravs, but he gets stripped before he can get the ball up.

    This post was edited by luthershot 8 on 2/21/2013 at 1:40 PM

    luthershot 8

  • skesler10 said...

    Shannon Scott is better than Craft on both ends, in my opinion. Obviously he is better on offense, I doubt anyone is going to debate that, but the kid is an incredible defender too, both on the ball and help side as well. Craft is great on the ball, maybe the best I have ever seen in college, but you don't see him intercepting passes near as often as Scott. His quickness is absurd. In my opinion, he is clearly our 2nd best player and that should be reflected in his playing time.

    I don't think this is farfetched at all.

    I think Scott's style of play (up tempo, push the ball, force the tempo) is better suited for this years team then Craft's style. I am not trying to take anything away from Craft. He is as good of an on-ball defender as I have ever seen, but he has serious limitations offensively. His style fit perfectly with the teams we had the past 2 seasons....not so much for this team.

    Another something to think about.

    BuckeyeSteves

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    Bhenson7

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    buckeyegary

  • luthershot 8 said...

    It is hard for either Scott or Craft to finish at the rim because the bigs do not position them selves well at all to get a pass on the drive. They put them selves out of the play and let their defender help on the driver. You would then think, OK, that leaves them free for a backside offensive rebound if their guy leaves to help. But that rarely happens because again of bad positioning and not boxing out. Williams does a better job then Ravs, but he gets stripped before he can get the ball up.

    The Truth clap

    This post was edited by buckeyegary on 2/21/2013 at 12:58 PM

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    buckeyegary

  • Scott's line today (don't have the minutes info)

    8 assists (had another that Ravenel missed a layup on), 4 steals, 4 points (missed 4 throws though, but credit to getting to the line 6x), and 1 block.

    I like it when we go against zone defense. Allows us to play Scott and get more creative on offense.

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    bennybuckeye

  • Smith is our third best player hands down. Is Scott very good at times, he sure is, but he cant do the things Smith does consistently game in and game out.

    jwuerth

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    BuckeyeKeg

  • jwuerth said...

    Smith is our third best player hands down. Is Scott very good at times, he sure is, but he cant do the things Smith does consistently game in and game out.

    What? Smith is probably the most inconsistent player on the team, at least from a scoring standpoint. Easy to say he is our third best player after tonight...

    skesler10

  • It has nothing to do with tonight but tonight just shows what he is capable of. Could Scott ever score 24? Nope. Especially when you need it. In addition, he defends and is probably our second best rebounder.

    jwuerth

  • It has nothing to do with tonight but tonight just shows what he is capable of. Could Scott ever score 24? Nope. Especially when you need it. In addition, he defends and is probably our second best rebounder.

    jwuerth

  • jwuerth said...

    It has nothing to do with tonight but tonight just shows what he is capable of. Could Scott ever score 24? Nope. Especially when you need it. In addition, he defends and is probably our second best rebounder.

    Scott's job isn't to score 24... Not sure that's a valid comparison. The thread title doesn't limit the discussion to scoring ability...

    skesler10

  • Scott is on the floor wiht Craft for Defense and disruption of the opponents offense.....he had done it when he is in there.....Ross comes out when he does not play Defense....NW could not handle the "short OSU lineup" at the end of this game as their speed and athleticism nutrelized NW and turned the game quickly to the Buckeyes!

    Bigjimmie

  • skesler10 said...

    Scott's job isn't to score 24... Not sure that's a valid comparison. The thread title doesn't limit the discussion to scoring ability...

    Did you read the rest about him rebounding and defending? Maybe you missed that. But just to clear it up a little more, read this. Smith is our second leading scorer, second leading rebounder, third in assists, third in minutes played, FIRST in 3-point FG % at 40%, shoots 46% from the field and 70% from the line. But I'm just saying, you know.

    jwuerth

  • jwuerth said...

    Did you read the rest about him rebounding and defending? Maybe you missed that. But just to clear it up a little more, read this. Smith is our second leading scorer, second leading rebounder, third in assists, third in minutes played, FIRST in 3-point FG % at 40%, shoots 46% from the field and 70% from the line. But I'm just saying, you know.

    I am not trying to bang on Smith as I like him (especially his quick trigger on the 3, good defense, and solid rebounding), but I don't buy him being our third best player.

    A lot of the stats you were pointing to were stacked a good deal in non conference play.

    Fact: Out of 16 conference games, he has scored 6 points or under in half of them.

    At this point in time, Scott's assists and steals put him as our third best player.

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    bennybuckeye

  • jwuerth said...

    It has nothing to do with tonight but tonight just shows what he is capable of. Could Scott ever score 24? Nope. Especially when you need it. In addition, he defends and is probably our second best rebounder.

    If you break down Smiths game yesterday it looks lopsided. For the first 12 minutes be was 5 of 6 from the floor with 4 for 4 three point shooting. That is fantastic!
    The rest of the game he was 2 for 7(all 3 point attempts) with 4 made free throws on 4 attempts.
    That is pretty much the norm for Lenzelle. He came out hot, that was great, but he cooled off. He forced some 3's early in the possession during the second half. When he lets the offense work, takes open shots and drives the lane he plays most efficiently and productively. His first 5 made shots were all great, wide open looks. His remaining shots were not nearly as good of looks.
    He is a good defender and rebounder and hustles. But outside of a few hot streaks, he needs to let the offense come to him.

    luthershot 8

  • luthershot 8 said...

    If you break down Smiths game yesterday it looks lopsided. For the first 12 minutes be was 5 of 6 from the floor with 4 for 4 three point shooting. That is fantastic! The rest of the game he was 2 for 7(all 3 point attempts) with 4 made free throws on 4 attempts. That is pretty much the norm for Lenzelle. He came out hot, that was great, but he cooled off. He forced some 3's early in the possession during the second half. When he lets the offense work, takes open shots and drives the lane he plays most efficiently and productively. His first 5 made shots were all great, wide open looks. His remaining shots were not nearly as good of looks. He is a good defender and rebounder and hustles. But outside of a few hot streaks, he needs to let the offense come to him.

    agree with you on LSJ.....i am ok with him pulling the trigger if he is shooting well but after missing a few he should focuse on what he is REALLY best at and that is driving and slashing to the bucket. That is where he excels. We will not win any games depending on him to shoot double digit attempts in three pointers.

    My frustration is he tends to take too many quick shots that do not come within the flow of the offense.

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    bcroft

  • bcroft said...

    agree with you on LSJ.....i am ok with him pulling the trigger if he is shooting well but after missing a few he should focuse on what he is REALLY best at and that is driving and slashing to the bucket. That is where he excels. We will not win any games depending on him to shoot double digit attempts in three pointers.

    My frustration is he tends to take too many quick shots that do not come within the flow of the offense.

    Ummmm, he hit a huge 3 late in the game yesterday after missing a few. So you guys would have rather had him not take the shot?I sure am glad he took and hit it. The numbers show he is our third best player. And the minutes he averages confirms that the coaches feel that way too.

    jwuerth

  • jwuerth said...

    Ummmm, he hit a huge 3 late in the game yesterday after missing a few. So you guys would have rather had him not take the shot?I sure am glad he took and hit it. The numbers show he is our third best player. And the minutes he averages confirms that the coaches feel that way too.

    2-7 from 3 after starting 4 -4. I'm glad it went in. Was it a great look? No. If LSJ shoots 11 3 pointers every game, this team loses more often. If he didnt start that well, half this board would of been yelling about him jacking up so many 3's. Looking at his stat line from the game, it looks good. But break it down and you see things differently.
    I like him on this team, but he needs to stay within the offense.!
    Numbers don't always tell the whole story. He is the only that we play regularly. Thompson and Ross are 3's. Craft and Scott are both PG.

    This post was edited by luthershot 8 on 3/1/2013 at 10:32 AM

    luthershot 8

  • Scott again the steady spark plug.

    22 minutes, 8 points, 3 rebounds, 3 assists, and 4 steals.

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    bennybuckeye

  • more importantly.....0 turnovers. Meanwhile Ross in 13 minutes had 2 turnovers.

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    bennybuckeye

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    BuckeyeKeg