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I think most Michigan fans are pretty realistic. We don't have the talent level to play with the Alabama's of the world. We are, IMHO, 2-3 years away. Green is a pieced of the puzzle, no more.
You can try to delude yourself that Michigan is not coming back...but it is. Now, will OSU go anywhere among the tops in the conference? Nope. I believe it is back to a two team conference, until someone consistently proves otherwise.
The bigger question in this post is, regardless of Michigan, is OSU at the level of Bama? I think the answer is 'Not Yet', but you guys are far, far closer than we are.
We already know that depth is gonna get debated from year to year as to which conference is the best from top to bottom but as far as the best conference at the top, there is NO doubt about who's the best now and who will be the best in "3-4 years" and that's the SEC. Hate or love it, it's the fact and is gonna be proven the fact. Until someone unseats them from the top everything else is just hearsay and wishful thinking. Recruit rankings and recruiting hotbeds don't mean shit(even with the most cases)? There's no need to even go look at which conference has had the best recruiting over the past 6-7 years because I can guarantee the majority of the top 10 teams are located in the hotbed areas for recruiting in the south which means it's relevant because the Alabama's, Florida's, LSU's, and Auburn have all won the last national championships and they all had high rankings in recruiting. NFL teams don't think it doesn't mean shit because they're drafting these guys in the 1st and 2nd rounds routinely. As I already said, conferences aren't measured by the crap teams at the bottom...that goes into depth but they're measured by your' top teams at the top and the SEC has the better teams on top which has been proven. I happen to think Urban Meyer's gonna change that as evidence of me wanting him to get the Ohio State job for quite awhile. Until the rest of the Big 10 quits crying and catches up, they're not gonna be even considered in the same ballpark as the SEC
Nothing wrong with wanting it to be the best, it's just simply not reality. Ohio State was the sole team at the top consistently for a decade and everyone else was being mediocre or would get a good year here and there. That's not enough to keep a conference up at the top
For the record, I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, I was one of the first people--if not the first person--to caution against saying the sky is falling by suggesting what's been going on with the B1G is cyclical, which I usually did by referencing that the Pac-12 was a joke not too long ago when it was just USC carrying the conference's reputation just as we've been while Michigan's been on the slide.
I am also one of the few who have been vocally supportive of wanting the B1G to get stronger across the board because as this year more than proved, we're judged by the company we keep and if/when the B1G goes to 9 or even (God forbid) 10 conference games, we're going to need our B1G brethren to be better because our SOS rating and chances of making the playoffs is going to depend on it. This year, had we been eligible, we very well could have been on the outside looking in as ND, Alabama, Oregon and Florida might have all been selected ahead of us. Forget that 3 of the 5 lost their bowl games; it would have been about total body of work and Oregon and Florida's resumes could have been rated higher because their conferences were tougher.
Wanting our opponents to be better is the smart play because running roughshod on a weak B1G will do nothing for us. As the attached chart shows, the good news is that compared with last year, the B1Gs seem to have stepped it up as 8 out of the 14 have improved their class's rank over last year and even Michigan State and Maryland have only slipped marginally.
This post was edited by iowabuckeyes 18 months ago
BTW, the SEC currently has 10 in the top 30 while the B1G has only 4. That includes Ole Miss, which was 41st last year and 14 this year (+27) and Vanderbilt, which was 48th last year and 30th this year (+18). As traditional football powers go, I'd put them on par with Indiana (45th) and Northwestern (49th).
The B1G needs more teams in the Top 30 every year, not just once in a Michigan blue moon, so while this year's improvements are commendable, as a conference, we still lag far, far behind the SEC in talent.
All of which can be attributed to recruiting, salary of coaches/assistants, and development of players. Look no further than Ole Miss. They're a doormat team and they're not content with that so they're at least trying by going and bringing in Hugh Freeze. Look at the monster recruiting class that OLE MISS(of anybody) is bringing in. They might even end up with Nkemdiche. Even Kentucky went and hired Mark Stoops. Even the doormats are trying to spend and become better
Clemson pays their OC 1 mill or 1.2 million ..granted they beat LSU ..but they had underachieved before the chik fil a bowl.. its not all about the money & what you pay your assistants also.
You have to be a quality coach also, if you said Head Coaches mattered, you make a point. The ship does not sail without the Head Coaches, I guarantee that.
Look at the Saints or Arkansas without their Head Coaches.. pay the Assistants all you want if the Head Coach is Garbage= the program is garbage also ...see USC do you know how much Monte Kiffin was paid.
Will Ole Miss, yes recruits want early playing time 1 year of good recruiting doesn't equal dominance go ask Ron Zook & he even recruited better.
Too logical, too obvious, too simple, therefore unacceptable to this board...
Not deluded at all as I don't take Michigan lightly. Never have...never will. I simply hate them just that much!
The scUM game is STILL one of the top games on the OSU schedule given my personal desire to see the head to head record evened out (ie. .500 or better) in the near term future.
Yes, Michigan will continue to be a pest, HOWEVER, there will be ZERO.....NO BIG TEN titles for this team...err........YOUR TEAM. Bet your arse on that!
So you continue to drink the Hokey cool aide, walk in bliss ignorance, while my Buckeyes reload and prepare to blast that ass on the regular!!
Yes, the Buckeyes are closer to "going nuclear" than your skunk bear. Baring additional or evidence to the contrary, the Bucks are much closer to squaring off with Alabama and there's not really much that you can say or do about it!!
This post was edited by BuckNasty_MD 18 months ago
BuckNasty is all about The Buckeyes!!!
I can play the opposite of all of this. If it's not about what you pay a coach then why hasn't any Big Ten team went and hired a big name head coach aside from Ohio State? I see Ohio State/Urban Meyer and I see what his assistants make and I look at the rest of the Big Ten and I see alot of questionable hires that will be a "wait and see" situation. You wanna compete with the best then you better start paying like the best.
You give the Saints and I'll give the Colts. That assistant took a 2 win team and took them to the playoffs.
And nobody said anything about dominance with Ole Miss. Fact is, the coach is getting big time recruits who want to play for him. I don't see Purdue doing that anytime in the near future
This post was edited by Ohioz Finezt 18 months ago
If head coaches were all that mattered, can you explain Iowa where Kirk Ferentz is the second highest paid coach in the B1G after Urban but has one of the lowest paid staffs?
How many times do we hear head coaches lobbying for more money for their assistants? It was a huge priority for Urban, who wanted the best staff in America. Why? Because they need guys who are great at teaching the game and they want to keep them. And they want to reward them. Head coaches are delegators. Their assistants, starting with their coordinators, are the doers. Head coaches are CEOs, their assistants are division presidents and vice presidents. The head coach sets the tone and tenor for the program, and he hires assistants who believe in his system and can produce his desired results, which should be wins and championships and job security and, ultimately, more money. Smart (and secure) business people hire people smarter than themselves and then they let them run. From there, everything is trickle-down theory.
In my opinion, one of the B1G's biggest problems is that it uses the non-AQ schools as its minor leagues for training future head coaches (Kill, Hazell, Beckman, Andersen), while the SEC looks at the B1G (Saban, Bielema), Big 12 (Miles), Big East (Butch Jones) and the coordinators at other Top 10-caliber BCS schools as its training grounds (Stoops: DC at FSU; Muschamp: DC at Texas; Mullen: OC at Florida; Richt: OC at FSU). Conversely, who in the B1G had a head coaching job or was a coordinator at a Top 10-caliber BCS school or in the NFL prior to being hired as a B1G coach? Only a quarter of them: Urban; Pelini (LSU DC); Wilson (Oklahoma OC), and O'Brien (New England OC).
Greatly stated iowa
So, YOU got your info from ESPN when you just told everybody to stop believing ESPN......Gotcha
The BIG would LOVE for MSU, Purdue, Illinois etc to be as good as Clemson....so yes, I'd say paying assistants more money does help...Clemson wasn't even mentioned as a good team the last 20 years, now they are...The biggest contribution assistants make is in recruiting...you pay big bucks, you get great recruiters...Clemson's talent would be 2nd best in the BIG behind what Urban is building. When they used to be behind FSU, Va Tech, Miami, Ga Tech, and probably a couple more ACC teams. Now they are on par with FSU in talent. Clemson hasn't moved it's stadium, so it has to be something else...
This. The B10 is on its way back to being the Big 2 again. The SEC is the Big 6; their little 8 went 0-30 against their Big 6 last season. The B10 is competitive at the bottom of the conference, not even close at the top of the conference. It's not just the coaches, the SEC states have far more top high school talent than B10 states. I've lived in SEC states (and Texas) and high school football is a different animal than in the north. Allen, Tx recently built a $60 million football stadium complex, just for one high school.
If urb has the money to.get the best staff why is.fickel on it ????
No Fickle topics until February please.
It's my understanding that the football stadium in Allen serves multiple high schools. That's not to diminish Allen's program. It takes 60 buses just to transport their marching band.
In 3-4 years the conference will be what it always was, only worse---the Big Two and the Little 12 (or 14). The additions may bring in more money but the conference will be even weaker as a result.
We just added the equivalent of another Minnesota and Indiana, more or less (sorry Gopher and Hoosier fans). Next they will add another Illinois and another Purdue. You can't produce a superior league by adding more mediocrities. The formerly great and classy Big 10 is turning into a Big 12 or Big East, meaningless conferences with revolving brothel doors. I wish I could believe the Big 10 will be the best conference in 3-4 years. Best in cash receipts maybe.
P.S. Good thing only 6 wins are needed to be bowl eligible. What a joke. Maybe they will lower it to 4 wins before long. Get more money coming in, lol. Bowl games used to be of compelling interest. Now they're like so-so OOC games for the most part.
Nope, just one high school. Nearby Plano High stadium seats 14,000 and Mesquite (~30 miles away) High stadium seats 20,000. High school football is a religion down there.
Michael Prengler/AP Images To say that football is a big deal in Texas is a bit like saying it snows in Alaska.
When people start talking about how everything is cyclical they are fooling themselves. Army, Harvard, Princeton, and Yale used to be college football's best. I'm not holding my breath waiting for that cycle to return. The trouble with too many of the B10 programs is that they would prefer to take the easy TV and shared bowl money, while complaining about OSU's success, than to take accountability of their lack of success and do something about it.
Another part of the problem is recruiting, Ohio, some Michigan, and PA, are the only recruiting bases worth tapping into. I guess that you can add New Jersey now as well.
Tier 2 or 3 prospects from Ohio who used to go to Minnesota, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, etc... now are as likely to go to a MAC school.
The good thing is that OSU will be fine no matter what. A conference will be considered OK with 2 powerhouse programs. A conference is considered good with 3 powerhouse programs, and great with 4. After that, no one really cares.
So if OSU and Mich are the only quality teams, then the conf. will be OK. The rest is up to Nebraska, Northwestern, MSU, and Wisky. That will be the difference between OK and Good. I don't think that the B10 will be great with 4+ powerhouse programs unless they add a Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame (not likely), or Va Tech.(overrated more often than not, but will add to the conf. reputation.)
I stand corrected.
Edit: High school football is a religion in Iowa, too. Our churches just aren't nearly as big.
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