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Each head coach seems to have one driving purpose that underlies the whole program. Here's the last few coaches and how they seem to be portrayed to me.
Meyer: What have I done to beat Alabama?
Fick: What have I done to counteract Bollman?
Tressel: What have I done to beat Michigan?
Cooper: What have I done to get my draft stock up?
Bruce: What have I done to beat Michigan?
I didn't live through the Woody era.
What are you talking about
I'm probably not explaining it very well. There is a sort of rhetoric that is talked about on the boards and in the media that is part of how the teams are defined. It just seemed to me that urban tryi g to beat Alabama is starting to be a huge focus point of discussions. Before that it was all Bollman killing the offense. Tressel was all about stomping Michigan and with cooper it was always about getting guys in the pros.
Sometimes i go thru the drive thru and dont even eat the food. Its just for the experience
Pay it forward?
"Any board that would ban 3yds is worthless"
i love this belief that tressel didnt want to win national championships or something. people short term memories are somewhat amazing around here.
He only got to three nc games .......weak sauce
YSU's President recently resigned. There's a rumor going around here that Tress will replace her.
Woody Hayes changed Ohio State football forever....
Since Woody Hayes tOSU's main goal has always been to take care of business (win the conference) and put itself in the position to win national championships. Period.
Any coach that has any goal shy of accomplishing that would never be hired.
To play in the NC game whether it's the BCS format or a playoff format....you must 1st play 4 quarters and win each game as it comes.
To win the conference.....you have to win the last game of the season....'The Game' to be exact.
You are 100% correct Lucky
...that's one more NC game than Urban Meyer made it to.....
2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 Tressel made it to 3 NC title games. Six seasons.
In the same time span ( in a six year period) Meyer made it to too....
Your statement is weak sauce.......
I'm not comparing the two coaches either.....very different approaches. They both are equally great coaches with two completely different styles of coaching.
....and uh...get your facts straight. In Tressel's entire coaching career he's won 5 NC titles and has coached his team to play in 9 national title games.....and is 5-4 career in NC title games.
This post was edited by Bearbuck 18 months ago
it really is mindblowing. i mean i love urban meyer and think he's one of the better things to happen to ohio state football, but the fact that people think he's the first coach to ever coach at ohio state who wanted to win national championships is not only retarded but false. especially since like you mentioned, the dude made ti 3 and won one of them. if urban meyer gets us to 3 national championships and wins one would anyone be mad?
I was being sarcastic %%%%
Didn't sound like it.....or rather....read like it.
I usually use bold letters, CAPS.....and sometimes flat out type sarcasm in parentheses ....
Plus with the 'weak sauce' comment it sounded like you were telling Lucky his comment was weak.
you should change your handle to jack handy and start a deep thoughts board
No one ever said that Tressel didn't want to win national championships.
The problem with him is that he usually wasn't willing to do the necessary and essential things that it takes to win multiple.
He won the first one in large part because he had a capable corps of assistants and the type of motivated players it takes to do so.
By the time he made it to his second and third title games he didn't in large part. I'll say the first loss was more of a learning experience. Learning to navigate through such a long layoff (51 days) with a Heisman winner and the team still on a high off from the program's biggest ever win over Michigan.
No team before had to deal with such. And only ND this past season has come closest to such a long layoff and all the off-the-field distractions when facing a hungry, motivated and very capable opponent for the crystal ball.
But the main reason why that second national title eluded Tressel is because he chose not to make the necessary adjustments needed to get over the top. He never made necessary changes amongst his assistants and was not good at cultivating younger talent on the team, in large part due to his pledge to upperclassmen regardless of capability.
There are things coaches and teams do to win national championships. Sometimes it's just pure luck. No doubt about it. But more often than not, it's about how much of yourself are you willing to set aside for the better good. Tressel was obstinate to change and allowed his ego to get too much in the way at times when it came to pulling certain players in favor of another, etc.
i respect your opinion but i dont buy it. florida pulled a huge upset, everyone picked osu, vegas had us a huge favorite. buckeyes had beaten 2 #2 ranked teams that season. they had the belief they could show up and win. that happens when you have 18-22 year olds. lsu, was simply the better team. the buckeyes lose their heisman winning qb, top 2 wr's (both first round picks) a solid running back and several offensive lineman and they make it back to the national championship. if you're going to knock coaching whatever, but who do you credit when they get back there with a team that lost so much?
Most of your post doesn't hold a lot of merit.
I'll say it again.....Tressel's entire coaching career he's won 5 NC titles and has coached his team to play in 9 national title games.....and is 5-4 career in NC title games.
Nowhere in the resume does it echo he was not willing to do necessary and essential things to win championships.
Maurice Clarett, A.J. Hawk, Nick Mangold, Beanie Wells, Ted Ginn, Terrelle Pryor, Alex Boone, John Simon, John Hankins, Jordan Hall, Kurt Coleman, Brandan Saine, James Laurenitis, Cameron Heyward, Zach Boren, Michael Jenkins, Chris Gamble....all played and or started as freshman.....this doesn't demonstrate a pledge to upperclassmen. Ask Todd Boeckman about Tressel's pledge then......
"There are things coaches and teams do to win national championships. Sometimes it's just pure luck. No doubt about it."
That is probably your most accurate point of your post. The real fact is that losses are going to happen whether we like them or not. We like to think we have some control over what happens on the field and why we lose a game by making accusations about this or that.....but in the end .....it is something we have no control over.
You play the game to win. There are a lot of elements to a game in which the coaches have absolutely no control over.....and all things considered....even though you may be favored to win......your chances are still always the same......especially against elite teams.
Tressel gets this wrap....a bad wrap.....but what exactly did John Cooper accomplish here? No one criticizes him nearly as much as they do or rather did Tressel.....and just exactly how many times were our Bucks even considered to be playing in a game in which they could win the AP title? Zero.
I wonder if the Oklahoma fans rip on Bob Stoops in the manner in which a lot of tOSU fans do Tressel. Maybe they do cause that's their team....and this is our team so I guess that makes sense.
Losing sucks. We hate it. We don't like it. But it happens. It's going to happen when Meyer is here too.
Each coach is defined by his particular era.
For Woody and Bruce it was all about beating Michigan and going to the Rose Bowl. There was no BC$ title game, 4-team playoff, talk of conference realignment or 12 teams in the conference.
Then it was the big two and the little eight.
For much of the Cooper era it was still all about beating Michigan and going to the Rose Bowl. However, since he wasn't born and bred on that rivalry and came in as a literal outsider, he brought a new and different approach to this program: the passing game and sending more players to the NFL in the first round than either of his predecessors.
Tressel sought to take things back to the Woody and Bruce eras, however that era was becoming more and more passe the further we went into the 2000s. But priority #1 to him was still, beating Michigan. And it showed with his 9-1 record against TSUN. Even days after his "ouster" in 2011 when fans marched to his UA home in a sign of appreciation, he told them, "We're gonna kick Michigan's ass!" When have we ever heard the Vest use "ass" in any reference. It was a bit much for him to even say "We always had the best damn band in the land, now we have the best damn team..." after winning the 2003 title. When it came to Michigan he was every bit the general that Woody Hayes was.
He didn't, however, embrace the era in which he coached. He still approached the game in the modern era as it would've been done a generation before. No doubt he was among the era's most successful coaches. No doubt about it, however, had he understood or accepted that to be ultimately successful in this era your main objective going into every season can't just be beating Michigan and winning the Big Ten.
Meyer, like Tressel before, is steeped in Buckeye tradition. However by the current coach having more of a varied coaching experience, he brings something new and different to the table. He's a contemporary coach for such a time as this. Most of today's most successful coaches have bounced around from one program to the next in one capacity or another. And as a result they've established coaching ties in various recruiting regions. They've befriended coaches across the country and have seen the game on a wider scale. In this way he's most like Cooper but with the understanding of the significance of the Michigan rivalry.
He's a synthesis of his predecessors in that he has the reverance of a Paul Brown, embodies the intensity of Woody and Bruce, has the national recruiting scope and ties of a Cooper with the attention to schematic detail of Tressel.
i still dont follow your point though. in order to win national championships, you have to 1.) beat michigan, 2.) win the big ten championship. just because urban meyer is more vocal about it doesnt make the situations different. they both want to win national championships. just because urban says our goal is to be alabama, that's wonderful and all. i can careless about bama though. we will never play them if we dont beat michigan and win the big ten. we also have to beat nw, purdue, indiana, etc but as a fan base we give a bigger shit about michigan than those teams.
what im saying is there's no difference in the tressel mindset and the urban mindset. both want national championship rings. how they show it is different. overall the goal remains the same
I didn't mean to say that tressel didn't want to win national titles or any of the other coaches. I was referring more to what fans and media talk about while those guys were coaches. Tressel was awesome. He went to a title game every third year on average. I think that's better than saban and probably even bear Bryant. His record is ridiculous.
However, if tressel won the big ten and beat Michigan along the way it would be considered a good year according to the fans and media. If Meyer does that are we going to be satisfied?
As a fan with cooper we could hang our hats on having the most nfl draftees. That's where the bar was set with the record vs Michigan. It didn't allow for national championship talk.
This post was edited by DollarYo 18 months ago
hahah man that makes the arguments in this thread look dumb, including mine haha
In these cases do you ask for ketchup?
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look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
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They do but it would probably take me more words and more time which I already catch a lot of flack for doing in the first place.
First of all winning championships at the the former D-1AA level is entirely different than doing so in Division I. That's where that "luck" aspect comes in more often than not. It's why I've always felt and still believe that Tressel was/is best suited for the upcoming 4-team playoff or the Bowl Alliance era where if you beat Michigan you go to the Rose Bowl and have a fighting chance of getting the AP's vote.
What he was able to do in his second year here was in large part due to the diversity of energy and experience on this staff (Bill Conley, Jr., Tim Spencer, Butch Reynolds, Mel Tucker, Mark Dantonio and on and on) along with a seasoned group of talented players. Then you bring in a coach with a different approach. A coach who in his early tenure dotted his i's and crossed his t's. Paid attention to the most minute of details. Placed emphasis on special teams and back on the Michigan rivalry, etc. That synthesis is what led us to that title. And all I'm saying is that if Tressel could've maintained that on some level going forward, I have NO DOUBT that we would've won at least one more national title if not more.
Tressel IMHO was and is every bit as capable as Nick Saban. I don't think Saban is superior to Tressel. But what I do believe is that Saban is going to do all he can to ensure he has the best people around him to make his job a bit easier. That's not to say that Tressel wanted his job to be more stressful but to instead say that if he weren't so set in his ways, he could've been even more successful. In other words he got "B's" with little effort but could've gotten "A's" across the board with just a bit more.
And I of course am fully aware of Tressel allowing underclassmen to play. But the ones you've mentioned were exceptional by and large. Clarett enrolled early and seized the starting job from Lydell Ross. Laurinaitis and Heyward got inserted into the lineup largely due to injuries to Carpenter and Lawrence Wilson. We can go back and forth on this but in reality we agree here more than not.
But what I will say is that Tressel was funny about his decisions on whom to play and not. One of his key rules was "Don't turn the ball over." He didn't care if you were a freshman or senior. He was a sticklar about that which is one of the reasons why he benched fifth-year senior Boeckman in favor of Pryor. Even though we would've still went 10-2 with Boeckman at the helm. There was no competition between the two of them for the starting QB job. Tressel basically gave it to Pryor because he could bring a different dynamic to the offense after Boeckman's woeful performance in the Coliseum and Beanie Wells being injured.
It had nothing to do with competition and that in large part is what I have a problem with.
Under Meyer, under Saban, Pete Carroll when he was at U$C and John Cooper during his time here--it was all about competing for starting jobs. That's how it's done at the D-I and NFL levels.
Tressel's approach to this was a bit different in large part because of his D-IAA rank and Baldwin Wallace pedigree. We are the sum of our experiences in many regards and Tressel was no different. He recruited guys who Cooper, Bruce, Hayes and Meyer would've never recruited and gave them opportunities that they would've likely never had been granted under his predecessors.
I don't disagree with you about "Big Game" Bob Stoops or Cooper either. Stoops has choked far more than Tressel ever did. In fact I wouldn't classify Tressel as ever choking because most of the teams we lost to (Texas in '05 and '09, U$C in '08 and '09, LSU in '08, Florida in '07, Illinois in '07, PSU in '08) were either our equals or just a bit better in some key areas. Perhaps our biggest upset was losing to Purdue in '09. chOkelahoma had several of those under Stoops.
Cooper was prone to one or two in his tenure as well. Cooper was more comparable to him in that regard but in truth, Stoops has no peer when it comes to having a proverbial glass jaw.
I've always said that Tressel was built for the Alliance Bowl era of the '80s and '90s while Cooper more for the BC$ era.
But obviously to gague how much we criticized Cooper, there's not enough room. Bucknuts wasn't around during the bulk of that period if at all.
Trust that there hasn't been a more maligned Buckeye coach in the modern era of college football than Cooper!
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