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Not just the fact that this setup will dilute our rivalry, it is making it an absolutely meaningless game 5 out of 10 times...
I don't see the BIG getting vastly better anytime soon, so I'm betting that UM will win their division 4 or 5 times a decade at least...As I expect us to as well...so that means we will play them in the CCG right after we play them in "The Game"....So I ask you, what is the point of "The Game"? One weeks bragging rights before the game that matters takes place...that's it...
Now, if we were in the same division, which makes more geographical sense, then we'd most likely be playing each other to determine which one of us gets to play in the CCG...which I think really boosts the rivalry...
Imagine if this year, UM was going to play in CCG and we weren't ineligible....then say Brax or DRob get hurt in our first game, and then that team has to turn around and play again without the QB....what did the first game prove? NADA....
To me it hurts our rivalry, puts players in a position to get hurt for a game that may not mean a thing half of the time....
I say, switch Wisky and UM, then we'd have tOSU, UM and PSU, they'd have Nebraska, MSU and Wisky. There would be nothing sweeter than to beat UM, then go to CCG and beat Wisky....
A Lot better than playing Wisky, then Michigan, then Michigan again....
The point on The Game is to play our biggest rivalry at the end of the year.... in the regular season, it gets a little tricky since we arent in the same division, and while it sucks for us, it makes sense for the B1G as a whole
tOSU and TTUN are the class of the B1G and have been for how many years? So you cant have your 2 biggest teams in the same conf and have those 2 teams beat the shit out of the other 1st place conf team every year.
Now, for the rivalry point of view, IMO it wont matter... I dont think the rivalry will suffer much. If anything it will get more interesting... Imagine a game like 06' #1 vs #2, then playing again the next week.... I think that'd be pretty awesome..
EDIT: I didnt mean to just type no, I was having issues with my browser and that's all it posted lol
This post was edited by OHSethIO 20 months ago
I'm sure there's opposition to my thinking, and I'm sure I'll be called names by the "bullies" but I'll bet after it happens a couple times everyone will be rethinking.....
Don't just see it as beating them twice a year, there will be years we lose two in a row as well....
I agree with OP.
"Buckeye born and bred, a Buckeye 'til I'm dead"
Back when I attended (Woody and Bo days) THE game more often than not was the conference championship game. That's what really drove the rivalry back then. Now it isn't. And for Michigan I suspect MSU will replace OSU as their primary rival, an in-state rival on the field, recruiting, and a division rival. Sad to see it go, but money is driving the bus now and traditional rivalries are dying.
Nice post, I also think that Wisky will become our primary rivalry as well. Since PSU might be down many years, it will be OSU Vs Wisky for our divison. This could get heated in the future (which it has already begun the last several years)
Traditional rivalries is what made college football great. The higher ups are not thinking big picture just like the NFL and NASCAR, 2 other sports hurting their own marketability and in the end their bottom line. They are making decisions that boost money short term but long term erode the very things that made the sport popular in the first place.
This post was edited by Wise_Buckeye 20 months ago
Good post. We've beaten the daylights out of this issue, but a geographical alignment would have made much better sense. I still can't tell you if TOSU is in the Leaders or Legends division, let alone any other team. The BIG hiearchy made a horrible blunder, there is no way around it.
Here is the way it should have shook out...
East - OSU, Mich, Mich St., Penn St., Inidana, Purdue
West - Illinois, NW, Wisc, Minn, Iowa, Nebraska
This was a no-brainer and would have set up a great last week of the season for rivalry games within the division (for a shot at the BIG championship game). Instead, the BIG went a different direction playing silly politics and focusing on short term thinking.
I agree that based on recruiting, it appears the next two seasons could very well mean back-to-back TOSU vs. Mich games. If that happens, the clowns running the BIG will have to correct the divisions. A step backwards is coming, it is only a matter of time.
I can never see the day that Wisconsin replaces Michigan as our main rival. Wisconsin is on its best day, a 2nd level team. It has no chance of ever winning a NC. Michigan on the other hand does. They are our equals, the record shows it. The thing that makes our rivalry with Michigan so great is that each team has the opportunity to ruin the others great season. There have been countless times when one team was going for a championship, only to lose to the other. With Wisconsin, we will never have the opportunity to ruin theirs because they will never be in that position of vying for a NC. Now the OP is correct when he says over time, the significance of the Michigan game will diminish because it has basically become an exhibition. To me, the lasting legacy of Gene Smith was the agreement to place us in separate divisions. It is incumbent on our elders to maintain the greatness of our society so future generations can enjoy the same things we have. In a small way, Smith and his acolytes did not do this.
This post was edited by osuum 20 months ago
I can agree to a certain extent about Michigan and OSU being in the same division. You can't help but wonder, what they were thinking by splitting the two teams up. Maybe they didn't see Michigan EVER coming back. I've said all along that the CCG is going to be Michigan vs OSU 80% of the time. I'm sure changes are going to be made. LIke....MSU vs. UofM the last game of the season. And Michigan vs. OSU in the first week of October.
One thing I will disagree with some of you on though (in this thread) is saying that "THE GAME" is losing some of its spark...those thinking that are completely NUTS! We now have two coaches who completely get what this game is all about. You're seeing recruiting battles going between the two schools. You have fresh coaching staffs on each sideline. I don't know if there has really ever been a time when there has been soooo much hate from both sides in this rivalry. To me....Woody vs Bo was referred to as the "ten year war", although it could be "Mich/OSU War 1" and now with Urbs vs Hoke, I thinks is going to be OSU/Mich War II. JMO
I guess...come back to me after THE GAME this year and tell me that it's starting to lose it's meaning. Changes will be made...you can count on it. Most likely a change in scheduling (especially after two straight years of OSU vs MICH in the CCG). But there is NO way that OSU vs Wisconsin / Michigan vs MSU will EVER replace THE GAME. You hate us too much and we hate you too much.
This post was edited by ahoyfrmmi 20 months ago
I'm not saying the rivalry will diminish this year or 5 years, but eventually it will. If the game moves to October, what's there to play for? It's just a big game on the schedule. We play lots of big games. One of the main elements of the game is the misery and despair brought on the others fan base when they lost during a great season.If you play in October, there's no build up for that to occur.
used to be the big 10 only sent one team to a bowl game and the "the game" often/usually determined the big 10's champ as the winner often went to pasadena while the loser went home. it was all or nothing. then it was the winner went to pasadena while the loser could still play in a lesser bowl. then it was the winner could go to the bcs title game, which meant the loser could still play in the rose bowl, which is what happened in 2006.
so the stakes have been slowly diluted and i believe "the game" would have even more fire if the prospect they could play again in indy the next week didn't exist. by putting them in the same division, which puts ohio state and michigan in a position to get back to an all-or-nothing proposition where only one of them would get to play in the big 10's championship game, i think the rivalry would become even more intense. the stakes would be higher--winner goes on to indy, loser goes home.
I always thought splitting the two made zero sense.
Not only does it dumb down the rivalry....
But if you want the Big Ten to get better....you don't put your 2 best teams in different divisions. Why?
People have always known the B1G to be tOSU and scUM. So if you want the conference as a whole to step up it's level to those 2 teams...don't put those 2 teams in separate divisions where the chances of them controlling all the marbles rides with those 2 teams. Just a thought...not saying it's necessarily true.
It's happening already.
I agree with you 100%. I also didn't like the fact that the B1G didn't move on 4 other schools to get to 16 teams. It didn't have to be ND, OU, or UT. The Big 12 was on life support. Schools like Missouri, KU, K-State, and Iowa State probably would have jumped at the chance to move the the B1G. We certainly know Missouri was fired up and ready until Delaney dissed them.
I was actually pretty shocked when the final decision was announced. Everyone spoke of how this alignment worked out best in the balance of power. Really? Wisky thinks they are "big-time" now. You would have had Ne, Wisky, and Iowa as the headliners. Nothing wrong with that in my book. I was told by someone in the "know" that Joe Paterno really beat the drum for this current alignment. He thought he was going to live forever and didn't want to play OSU and scUM every year. I don't know how much truth there is to that, but it's what I was told.
The one thing I'll say is this...
I think you meant to say that YOU NOW HAVE A COACH WHO GETS IT instead of "we now have two coaches that get it"
If I remember correctly...our last coach, HE GOT IT!!!
Agreed. + 1
The divisional alignment is retarded for a number of reasons, and I agree with the OP that Michigan should be in our division, but that still won't prevent potential rematches which (IMO) should not be allowed. Why should the losing team get a 2nd chance to beat the winner for even higher stakes? The answer: They shouldn't.
This post was edited by Razorback 20 months ago
Which ultimately in the end devalues the regular season.
It's a problem IMO.
It's also one of the main reasons I stopped watching the NFL years ago. The best teams in the NFL don't win the Super Bowl anymore....it's the luckiest teams on the hot streak that do. Recent history has proven it.
It's also why most people don't really start paying attention to basketball until February (aside from the fact that football is just a superior game).
I'll have to say one thing about the SEC that they did do right and we (The B1G) should have learned from them...
They kept LSU, Auburn and Alabama in the same division and Florida, Tennessee, Georgia and South Carolina in the same division.
This post was edited by Bearbuck 20 months ago
Placing OSU and UM in separate divisions will eventually neuter the rivalry. It will always be special to those of us who grew up with it, and as long as both teams are good it will still be a big game. But you can't have a real rivalry between cross-divisional opponents and the young people of today won't see "The Game" the same way twenty years from now. What's sad is that Delany, an ACC grad, followed the ACC model after there was already ample evidence that separating Miami and FSU into separate divisions wasn't working and had eroded their rivalry. Likewise with Alabama and Tennessee in the SEC, and we all know how separating Nebraska and Oklahoma worked out in the Big XII. Meanwhile division rivals Oklahoma & Texas play one of the biggest games every year, the winner usually advancing to represent their division in the CCG. Notice how the Pac-12 maintained all their rivalries within their divisions with no need for protected crossovers. USC-UCLA, Cal-Stanford, ASU-Arizona, Oregon-OSU, Washington-WSU -- all divisional rivalries. Competitive balance is the responsibility of the schools, not the commissioner.
TheFan replayed an interview with Bielema on Buckeye Roundtable last night; I'm not sure when it was recorded. But he was talking about the importance of being in the same division with OSU and how playing OSU every year opened up recruiting in Ohio for the Badgers. Remember how involved Barry Alvarez was in creating the divisions? When the divisions were first announced, I thought it was bad that Wisconsin was separated from their traditional rivals Iowa and Minnesota, not to mention a potential headline rivalry with newcomer Nebraska. But Bielema's comments suggested that maybe this was Alvarez's goal the whole time. Split up the big rivalry between the top two teams in the conference, and now the battle is about who gets to step up in each division to become the main rival of the top dog -- Michigan in the Legends and OSU in the Leaders, and obviously you'd rather recruit Ohio than Michigan. PSU is screwed for the next several years so Wisconsin football just got the biggest boost in stature in the history of their program.
A lot of fans from other B1G schools think that the divisions favor OSU and Michigan. They don't. Wisconsin and MSU probably benefited more from the divisions than any other teams. Coincidentally, those two schools probably have the most capable AD's in the conference.
I think they should both be in the same division as well.. splitting them makes no sense.
I believe Delany, in his misguided desire to avoid have an unbalanced B1G by putting all the B1G's traditional powers in one division--we'll call it the Lakes with OSU, scUM, PSU, MSU, PU and IU--that he feared would result in a weaker second division--we'll call it the Plains with Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern and Illinois--came up with a different rationale and alignment than following the more logical geographic model. He wanted to avoid replicating the Big 12's mistake where the South became the have's division and the North the have-not's. It's as if he paired everyone up with another team of equal regard and reputation and then split them up. That meant putting OSU and scUM, Penn State and Nebraska, Wisconsin and MSU, Illinois and Iowa, Purdue and Minnesota, and Indiana and Northwestern in separate divisions.
But Delany knew he had to keep The Game or get run out of town on a rail so he created this "annual cross-divisional rivalry" nonsense that annually pits Iowa against Purdue and Indiana against MSU, as if those matchups ever were, are now or ever will be confused as rivalries. And that only created a bigger problem, which meant that if a team plays the other five teams in its division plus a cross-rival every year, it creates a scheduling imbalance that only allows it to play two of the other division's remaining five teams.
After we play Nebraska this year, we won't play them again until at least 2017, five years later. That's too infrequent. If the divisions were realigned so that everyone's year-end rivalry games were with teams within their divisions--OSU/scUM, Iowa/Nebraska, MSU/PSU, IU/PU, Illinois/Northwestern, Wisconsin/Minnesota--there would actually be a greater frequency and consistency of games played against the teams from the other conference, not less. Three cross-divisional games per year among six opponents means a 2-year rotation, not every 4-5 years as we're seeing now.
I think you should run for President! You would definitely get my vote! Go Bucks
Without tradition, college football would be just a poorly played imitation of the NFL. It's on it's way IMO.
I don't think anyone is happy with the status quo, that is for damned sure.
Im fine with them in the other division. But ever since we split into divisions ive felt "The Game" should be moved to October. And i still feel that way. Wisconsin or Penn St should be our final regular season game and scums should be Nebraska or Mich St
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