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* With Berry, he didn't start having off-the-field issues here until later in the season (I know he had the marijuana thing back in Florida before arrival -- similar to Brionte Dunn's incident this past year). It always bothered me that he never got a chance. He always had a load of talent, but they would only play him in mop-up time. He should've had more time especially considering how bad Saine was. It took JT way too long to move Saine to WR, which was part of the problem, and then once we hit the Big Ten part of the schedule, even Jordan Hall barely got any playing time. Berry should've had a shot though. As far as his off-the-field issues, sure he definitely caved there at the end, doing some really stupid things, but I do feel like he was submarined here by JT early on.
* I fully understand your point on Boeckman, and that's why I mentioned in the post you quoted regarding "even if TP didn't start right away, by mid-way through the OU game..." -- there are a couple of things that were pretty obvious to the fans that year early on --
* Our offensive line was terrible
* Boeckman had regressed horribly and had already started regressing toward the end of 2007 -- his downward trend continued into 2008
These things contributed to why many folks, myself included, felt TP should've been at the controls earlier than he was.
Edit: Added information
This post was edited by Razorback 18 months ago
yeah i mean overall we see eye to eye, simply i will never understand the berry love. young guys earn playing time through special teams and aside from the return against miami where he tripped over his own feet he did nothing but run into piles and go down quite easily by the first tackler. personally he never showed me anything on the field that made me go, "why isnt he getting more touches," where as when hyde played 2 years ago he'd have these moments where you go damn get that guy the ball some more, especially 3rd and shorts.
now bauserman starting over braxton.. oh lord we can talk for days about how stupid that was
Well, with Berry -- maybe my view on him is different, but I thought he absolutely excelled with the carries he got. He averaged 8.3 yds per carry in 2010. The next closest guy was TP with 5.3 yds per carry. And I see people say "well, he was doing it against tired defenses" -- well my response to that argument is the coaches always say "when you get your opportunity, you've got to make it count". He more than made it count IMO. Every game he played in that I remember, particularly in 2010 he did pretty well. And to show you deserve carries in the heat of battle, you've got to excel against backups and tired defenses, which he did. I felt he deserved a chance at least, and still late in the 2010 season I'd see Saine getting (and wasting) carries which is what a number of folks got tired of with Tressel. That upper-classman favoritism. And I know it didn't happen with every single player, but I think it's ok to at least be honest and point out that the favoritism definitely happened more than it should have during his tenure. That is one thing I'm very excited for with Meyer is that I don't think that kind of thing will happen very often.
Edit: And yeah -- with Bauserman, my God...2011 will probably go down as the worst season of OSU football I've ever seen. I'm just glad Bollman is coaching in our division now. That will help with our Purdue struggles. :D
im trying to think of times though where there was true upperclassman favoritism. every coach is going to favor a senior over a freshman if they're head to head off of them being a veteran and naturally more mature. id like to have a list of upperclassman who started over a freshman that was like clear he shouldnt have been. bauserman is obvious, that's not tressel though.
I threw a few out in my other post, but it's possible you may not share my opinion on those like we discussed with Boeckman. I'm definitely not going to go through every year's roster for the past 10 years to build a list though, I'm not that concerned with it. :) If you and bear have a differing view, that's totally cool as well. I enjoy reading both of your guys' posts even when I don't agree.
No Kein wasnt benched for Boren. He was forced out with a back injury and held off to the end of the season for surgery. But I agree with you the best players will play. Storm was the best we had a MLB thats wy he played, thats another reason we were week at LBer, noone could step in and take his spot. If the would have moved Boren to LBer at the beggining Storm might not have seen the field at all and I be willing to bet our LBers wouldnt have been a weekness.
The same goes for Joe Bauserman. Ive said it many times, the reason he started was because our 1st string defense was shredded by him in practice, every practice he looked head and shoulders better than the rest of the QBs.
Having Hall back will not hurt our cause but don't expect him to be a homerun hitter because he's just not that type of a player. I'm glad to have him though and I'm sure so are the coaches.
point being, boren was better than your boy storm. injurt or not doesnt matter. healthy storm v. healthy boren there's really no case that can be made for klein. ill defend klein in the sense that people wanted grant to play over him. why exactly? grant had his shot. he had 5 extra weeks to beat out storm and in a matter of one week back storm was ahead of him. again no offense to your boy, but storm isnt exactly the best player i have ever seen. what does that say about grant...
You just made my point, we had Carlos Hyde and Herron got the start after being part of the tattoo posse that cost this years team a chance to beat a weak ND team for the national title. Good point!
carlos hyde wasnt better than boom herron two years ago. you want to say he was better than hall ok i agree, but boom was a pretty legit running back
Jesus man reread my post. What exactly did you not undersand??????????????????????????
I never said Storm was better. I did say if Boren was moved to LBer at the beggining of the season Storm probably wouldnt have seen the field that much. Boren wasnt moved to LBer until Storm was hurt. What the fuck does that say about our current and last years coaches that a fullback is argueably the best LBer on the team and they didnt even know it?????????
2. Pryor never started over Beck until week 4. And there is a great reason why TP finally took over.
1. After the PSU game in 2007 when Beck took several big hits he was never the same QB.
2. Our O-line in 2008 was soooooo fucking bad a slow pocket passer like Beck, who wasnt the same QB when presented with heavy pressure, had no chance of success, ZERO PERCENT.
3. Despite TP sucking at throwing the ball he gave us by far the best chance of winning.
4. Like I said before. Bauserman in practice was like Tom Brady against our defense. Game time, he sucked ass. Thats why he got the start or 3 or 4 weeks.
Your opinion in regards to actually evaluating the talent seen in spring practice, two a days, and regular season practice is worth about as much opinion as mine is.......OUR OPINIONS DON'T MEAN JACK!! Mine included Razor...and I do respect your opinion and opinions but hey we definitely don't have to agree....we do sometimes and we don't.
If we didn't have the success that we had during Tressel's 10 years then I'd say yeah.....this view/opinion may have some merit.
Not to mention somethings mentioned are rather contradictory. Lydell Ross by your estimation would have played over Clarett because he was an older player...he'd already been there a year and if Tressel was so enamored with playing the "senior esque" players he would have benched the talent.
Todd Boeckman led the 2007 squad to a B1G Ten championship and berth in the NC game! So why would you start an unproven true freshman off the get go when you have that experienced QB coming back the following season? The smart answer here is you wouldn't.....Pryor played in every game his freshman season so him not starting the 1st couple of games in my opinion is pretty much a no brainer. Boeckman performed very well up until the USC game. We were without our best offensive player at the time....Beanie Wells. Even with him...as a team and playing as a team we still would have lost. As you said....even with Pryor and a healthy Beanie...we still would have lost. Our defense got shredded. But make no mistake....no way would any coach...including Meyer...start an unproven true freshman QB over Tim Tebow just because he was an uber recruit!! No way....you're crazy IMO.
Boom Herron was the best RB in 2010 as has been mentioned. So this is a mute point. It would have been awsome if Berry had panned out but as things go...he didn't. Funny...if he was such an incredible talent I wonder why Urban Meyer chose Carlos Hyde and Rod Smith over Berry?! Could be that Berry had a lot of other issues going on in his life that interfered with his God given talent which was a shame...because he did show a few flashes......but a few flashes sometimes aren't enough. You want to read something interesting.....if you haven't check out Maurice Clarett's story on what Jim Tressel told him at the start of the 2002 season in the Texas Tech game to start he season. In a nut shell .... he told Clarett he had to show him something special if he wanted to be the starting RB. Well Clarett did and continued to do so both in games, in practice and in the weight room. Maybe it's quite possible Berry just couldn't put it all together.....but it is what it is. By the way....Jordan Hall played in all 13 games in 2010 so his talents weren't going unnoticed. Boom Herron was clearly the better RB.
This post was edited by Bearbuck 18 months ago
As a true freshman Ted Ginn jr. returned 4 punts for TD's which ended up being a B1G Ten record.
Jamaal Berry never broke one loose for a TD. Not once.
Even Ray Small another malcontent....broke a few TD's.
Jamaal Berry had every chance....the kid flat out just could not put it together at the next level. Had all the tools and talent to do so....but sometimes it just doesn't pan out at this level.
You're spot on about Boeckman...and as I said in my response to Razor....Urban Meyer wouldn't have started Cam Newton or TP over Tim Tebow. Now way....not ever. In fact Urban Meyer had Cam Newton on his roster....but stuck with Tebow even though Newton was even more of a threat than Tebow. Newton just couldn't stay out of trouble at Florida in the 1st place....
If we had beat LSU in the NC game I bet we wouldn't even be discussing this QB debate....
Saine came in behind Beanie Wells....and Jordan Hall played in all 13 games in 2010 and meaningful time at that.
JT didn't submarine Jamaal Berry......Jamaal Berry submarined a Jamaal Berry.
I think Hall's senior leadership may be the most underrated thing he'll bring to the team this year.
We pretty much agree in some areas...
But seriously....at what point did you see Jamaal Berry do anything....like Lucky was saying....that made you say wow he's a difference maker?
I never saw it.....even in mop up duty. He had some nice bursts through the LOS. But he never ripped off anything like Clarett, Beanie Wells, Ted Ginn etc. etc.....even in mop up duty! That to me doesn't translate to he didn't have a shot.
He had the tools....he had the talent....he just didn't put it together at this level. Some guys do...some guys don't.
Here here...me too.
You force me to think.....and do some digging to be sure....and.....leave me open to other possibilities....which is why I love sharing opinions and talking football with you guys......even though I'm "cracked" in the skull sometimes LOL.
That would be me....beating myself in the head with a hammer!
There was an interesting article Bri.....on exactly what you're talking about in regards to our LB depth.
We got hit hard there...and not necessarily JT's fault entirely.....but a few of those highly regarded guys didn't pan out and we lost a lot due to injury as well....
Missing on DePriest and Hicks didn't help either....with the depth that is.
Compare the stats of Herron and Hyde and you'll see what I'm talking about.....
In regards to tatgat.....IMO and for that reason only....Hyde should never have been benched. That falls on Fickell as far as I'm concerned....
But Boom Herron is or was every bit as good as Carlos Hyde.
im aware that's what you were saying i was actually defending storm klein against curtis grant
dorian bell loving marijuana killed us. dude would have been a 3 year starter. instead he was a one year contributor, 5 time drug test failure and then kicked out after 1 season
Many of your points here I covered in earlier posts, but as you say, our opinions certainly do not have to align as we fully disagree here in a number of areas. No worries, and go bucks!
Bear: Oh and just to add on Berry to answer your question in some previous posts about why I felt he deserved some playing time with the 1st team -- if you have copies of all the 2010 games I would highly recommend a re-watch. IMO Berry was clearly better than Saine by quite a bit and broke off a number of big runs when there didn't seem to be much, there -- Saine was flat out AWFUL in 2010 after the Marshall game -- I felt really bad for the kid. I'm glad he ended up getting drafted because it was looking really bad for him -- it was probably a very good thing for him that JT did finally move him to WR so he could get some reps there for the scouts. In 2010 the RB depth chart should have been Herron (best back on the roster that year) / Hall or Berry / Hyde.
Edit: Added information.
Yeah Razor I'm curious to go back and take a look and see what I remember....
I agree with you about Saine.
As far as the position of a true RB at this level he never did seem to accel. He was pretty good in the slot as he had great hands....was good out of the back field on wheel routes for pass plays...
But definitely agree...as a RB out of the backfield he definitely didn't have it. Probably the best game he ever had was against Oregon in the Rose Bowl.
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