In partnership with CBSSports.com
Online Now 2205
Online now 2088 Record: 10904 (2/4/2012)
The place to discuss inside information, the latest rumors and scoop on the Buckeyes
Anything and everything football related that has to do with your Buckeyes
If it's football recruiting, OSU-style, it's cussed and discussed here
Talk a little Buckeye basketball with your fellow Ohio State hoopsters
You have no favorite boards.
The most viewed topics.
The most replied to topics.
The most up-voted topics.
The most down-voted topics.
The most up-voted posters.
The most down-voted posters.
The most followed posters.
Both parties (Savage or the Coach) have every right to freedom of thought, religion, and speech. You can agree or disagree with the substance of what each of them said, that's not really the issue in my mind. That's a differerent argument.
This is an issue of appropriateness, discretion, and judgement. Who do they work for and represent, what forum are they speaking in, and who are the speaking to are the questions I am thinking about.
There is a difference between a political commentator (who works for himself or a private media service) vs. a football coach working for a public institution. It is not a double standard in my opinion to say that the latter party should exercise a greater degree of discretion before getting involved in a political debate where the comments could be construed as discriminatory and are offensive to some.
This is by no means saying I agree with Savage's opinion, he was way out of bounds based on this article and was grossly innappropriate in his comments. If he had been the Nebraska football coach, I would assume you would have been calling for him to be fired, while people who agreed with what he said might be making similar arguments you are making to defend the actions of the actual Nebraska coach.
However, my position would be the same. Thus, I would respectfully suggest that you are the person employing a double standard. It seems if the person agrees with your religious views, they should spread them regardless of the venue, but if they disagree, they should be silenced.
(I know I wrote too much, just try to read if you can)
Go Bucks, I would like to respond to your comment. You started off OK speaking of grace but when you indicated Jesus said not to Judge as if in a final statement on the topic, you actually practiced what is called “Isogesis” which means to takes verses out of context and without respect to other portions of scripture. This is how many get in trouble when they read only portions of the Bible instead of reading it thoroughly. Matthew 7 is part of the Sermon on the Mount (Chapters 5-7). Jesus is not saying, “Do not Judge, period” but he is warning about judging without humility and not to be like the Pharisees who judge by the “letter of the law” and not by the “spirit of the law.” Yes a person should be careful, as we do not make any final judgment about a person’s eternity. Some Christians may need to work on this too. But if you will kindly read on through Chapter 7 you then come to verses 15 to 20 that conclude, “Thus by their fruit you will recognize them.” Here He is saying you have to use discernment or judgment to make sure you watch out for those whose lifestyles or teachings stand as an indictment against them. There is “good” fruit and “bad” fruit. So how do we judge the fruit without judging the person?
Mr. Brown is not wrong from a biblical standpoint, because he is only saying what the Bible already says. He would be wrong if he added or subtracted what the Bible actually says. He is not judging anyone as God already has indicated how we will be judged and by what criteria. The only thing yet to be determined is our actions in this life that will be revealed at the final judgment.
I have a thought on this topic, many times a government passes laws or makes things legal that Christians disagree with and even the Bible seems to directly speak out against. For example, the Bible says “do not get drunk” but there is no law in the U.S. society about getting drunk (only if you drive while drunk is there a law). The Bible seems to respect life so that many oppose abortion but the law of the land may permit it, people may smoke since it is legal even though the Bible says take care of the body, there is no law against lying (except under oath), but the Bible is pretty clear about we are not to lie. The Church and Christians have spoke out and preached against many of these and others for many years and will continue to do so, and no one said, “Hey you must hate drunks, smokers, liars, adulterers, etc. etc.” But the Christian response is, “No we do not hate anyone, we love them very much and pray and hope they will change the way they live. We are here to help if they need it.” This does not mean Christians have not tried to deal with these social issues by working through government policies or laws (there was prohibition before in parts of the U.S.), and what is troubling now is that Christians feel under attack in the U.S. directly. Why is this so? Well, to this point the Church was free to speak out against all types of issues or what is seen as sins (alcoholism, abortion, adultery, gambling, adultery, divorce, and many other issues). But with homosexuality and the move to list anyone speaking out as judging or committing a ”hate crime,” we then have entered into a completely different arena. Will the government allow the Church to speak out against what the Bible calls “sin”? The homosexual movement is not happy just to get legal status from the government it appears, but is also wanting to quiet the Church, and the Bible per se, and as seen by many posters here. The other issue is that God is the one who initiated marriage between a man and a woman, not the U.S. government. The government “chose” to recognize “marriage” early in the formation of the U.S. So how can the U.S. government say it is now has more authority than the Bible on marriage? That is why there are recommendations to use other titles for other sexual orientations, but not “marriage.” Also, understand that many here in Africa are concerned as we watch the U.S. Many of these issues are against the law here. The fear here is the West will force us to trade our culture for yours. If you understand the culture and language here, it is entirely built on the family structure. To adopt a western culture would totally destroy the African culture, especially sub-Sahara Africa. Recently, the Nigerian parliament voted 100% that marriage is between one man and one woman. The European Union (backed by the West) said, you must change this stance or lose funding in the future. The Nigerian government told the EU and west to stay out of its business. Do you really think the west will stay out of Africa’s business? So we are watching this with great interest. You may think it is only the U.S. dealing with this issue, but it is really much larger and yet none of you probably care about what Africa thinks on this topic. I hope that statement does not offend anyone. When President Obama was elected many here wore their pictures on buttons with pride. But lately you do not see them worn anymore as we have learned more about him. Sorry to say that.
So if the modern culture or government decides to legalize something the Bible speaks out against, just like any other so called sin, expect the Church and Christian to speak out against it. It is not hating a certain person, but making sure God’s word has been made clear. If you read the Bible you will see that is what Christians are instructed to do.
Thanks again for allowing me to share. I wish there was a way we could sit and talk on this. I know if I sat next to you or the others on here at an OSU football game we would have lots of fun rooting for the Buckeyes. I may never get to do that though since the costs are too great.
This post was edited by African Buck 2 years ago
Jag, public employees at institutions should not speak out?? Does the U.S. Constitution support this? Then what in the world is going on in the universities in the U.S.? How would a professor even teach if he or she as a public employee can not talk about divisive issues? We hear all the time from student's how professors make thier opinions known on controversial topics in the public classroom, sometimes even outside thier expertise? When I went to college there I was asked to write papers on controversial topics. There were times I disagreed with the professor or even the special guest lecturer (Savage should have at least been at the college level but not with teenagers). That was part of the college education. As large as the public sector workforce is in the U.S., are you saying that they should not speak out like this because they are a public employees that work at public institutions? Where do public employees of institutions go for free speech? Since when has "offensive" been a way to determine free speech? When blacks in the U.S. spoke out for civil rights, were some offended? When people speak out against Christians or the Bible and the Chritians see this as offensive or discrimitory, will you speak out the same as here? See my question is really asking why you really have a problem with Mr. Brown? Is it because he is coach at Nebraska that happens to be a Chrisitian? Again, where does Mr. Brown go to give his opinion to his local community where he lives?
The gays discriminated against TOSU football team by being angry the team was using "their" color. They didn't want to share it.
They get all the cool colors > lavender, rainbow...
I know at the end of the day we will just disagree on this. I hope no harm will come even though I have concern. Thanks for allowing me to share. Just trying to give out some other perspectives as someone who is not there in the middle of what is happening. I really come to this site to follow the Buckeyes. So will try to follow the sports side but glad to respond with respect to the others if time. These blogs tend to be very impersonal and seem rude at times. That is what bothers me most when trying to repond.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by African Buck 2 years ago
No harm at all, this is a diversion from the Buckeyes, but religion being openly exercised in sports is so huge at this point that it is a topic worth discussing.
But by the same token, you have conflated too many issues (you are all over the place in discussing politics, religion, homosexual rights, the bible, etc) that will start a never-ending debate.
We will have to agree to disagree on what constitutes poor judgement and lack of discretion by a football coach at a public university in exercising a right to free speech.
Thanks Jag, I think the topic is a large one and even yourself would admit that you, me and the others have difficulty trying to absorb all the issues at stake by reading a blog. Just remember that most Christians who speak out are not mean or do not understand just because they follow the Bible. They may not be perfect but they still are passionate. We all have much to deal with in this world. I remember when I was back in Ohio during the college days I worked for a man who said he was an atheist. However, we had some interesting discussions but we treated each other with respect. He said he read the Bible so he could put up good arguements, but he always respected my postion even in disagreement and I tried to return the respect. I learned that you can disagree and still be respectful. I am sure that this issue and others will continue for some time just by the fact the Bible and God does not change. Same Hebrew language in the Old and Greek language in New. But culture changes all the time and there you have the potential for conflict. Wish I could join you all for a Buckeye's game but likely will not make it that way much. What would I do without internet and now satellite TV?
You are familiar with Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell aren't you? Was that some sort of technicality as thousands of people were being discharged right and left that they weren't actually being fired?
Hey African Buck, whvball, lavergnebuckeye, DaveP160, drmiller166, MacoutahBuck, B-Man, mspray, jjguth, sugarcrystal, rugbybuckeye and all you other religious freaks, you do realize you're all going to hell, don't you? Eh, probably not. Otherwise, you'd realize how messed up your views are and then realize you really need to be better people. More humane people. Hiding behind Christianity won't save you.
If Jesus Christ were alive today in human form, a single man in his early 30s who had never slept with a woman and liked to drink wine and attend weddings and was persecuted for advocating love for his fellow man and had a lot of female friends and single male friends, he would probably be labeled gay. And men like Ron Brown who be the first ones throwing stones at him.
why is dere a 4 pag threed on da nebuska ass coch'
The Cornhuskers assistant coach recently testified in front of the Omaha (Neb.) City Council that gays, lesbians and transgender people shouldn't receive anti-discrimination protection under a proposed ordinance. He is considering testifying on May 7 in front of the Lincoln City Council, which will conduct a public hearing on proposed legislation that would prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.
"Any board that would ban 3yds is worthless"
also from the article...
It was no accident that when Brown spoke to the Omaha City Council he listed his address as Nebraska's Memorial Stadium. And there is no separation of church and state on Brown's Nebraska football office voice message:
"I praise the Lord Jesus Christ for today. I hope you're having a blessed day. Not able to answer my phone right now. Give me a try back and Lord willing, I'll get back to you as soon as possible. Have a great day."
Brown, as well as Nebraska athletic director Tom Osborne, has said that Brown's city council testimony reflected only the assistant coach's personal views. But those views were made by an employee of a public university that receives 42 percent of its funding from the federal government and state appropriations.
It is also a university that prides itself on inclusion, whose Office of Equity, Access and Diversity Programs features the school's non-discrimination statement. And there in that statement, in boldface type, by the way, is this: "It is the policy of the University of Nebraska-Lincoln not to discriminate based upon age, race, ethnicity, color, national origin, gender, sex, pregnancy, disability, sexual orientation, genetic information, veteran's status, marital status, religion or political affiliation."
So, you leftists believe Jesus was gay now? Why am I not surprised by your idiotic thinking.
If Brown was a muslim and praising allah and quoting the quran, you can be sure iowabuckeye would be standing side by side with the aclu defending him.
Can anyone tell me if straight people are being protected by this ordinance in Omaha? They are discriminated against by gays every day in the fashion and entertainment industries. If you don't believe it, you have never worked in either one or if you have, you are flat out lying. Where is the outrage about this?
I’m an atheist….. You twat!
I just don’t agree that one’s sexual proclivities need to be elevated to a protected civil right. Why can’t I disagree with your collectivism ideology and still be a decent, caring human being? I just don’t agree that homosexuality is discriminated against in the same way that those of color were. What is so hard to understand about this…..?
Go fuck yourself.
My 2 favorite Buckeyes
Just because he doesnt want a ordinance to pass does not make him a homophode or hater. When you put people in groups by these so called "ordinances" it breads more hate.
What a completely Fascist remark. I can't wait for you to attack the Jews because they "dominate" Hollywood and Wall Street. You really are a manboob, aren't you?
And now I've heard it all--a homophobe complaining about he's being discriminated against by gays! Kept you from tap dancing and designing clothes, did they? That's like slave owners bitching that they couldn't get any exercise because their slaves kept doing all the hard work. Hey, here's an idea--let's pass a law that NBA teams can only have as many blacks on their rosters as match the % that blacks comprise of the total population. I mean, c'mon, why limit the below the rim game to pick up games at the Y? Or American NHL teams can only have so many Canadians or MBL so many Dominicans and South Americans. American jobs for Americans only, I say!
Sweet Jesus, save me from these morons! Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do!
^^^^^^ This has to be the most idiotic bloviation yet to be posted to this thread……
What he is saying is that your side would label him gay. Do you not recognize context? Jesus! What dumb-asses.
But just the same nothing extra the problem is most of the time extra is given, and or intended.
If I were Brown's supervisor, I would advise him that while he is certainly free to express his religious position outside of work time, he is exercising poor judgement in doing so. This is because his words are highly offensive to some and could be construed as promoting discrimination. I would make it clear that he is being paid to coach football for the University, not to use his position to engage in a religious crusade.
I would formally warn him at the same time, tell him that if he continues on this crusade, he would be required to incorporate a clear disclaimer statement that he is representing his personal views, and not those of University of Nebraska. If he does not incorporate the disclaimer, he should be fired.
I'd tell him to stfu competely...yes he has freedom of speech but he is high profile and using it to his advantage and it does have impact on the university. If he was a junior high school coach this wouldn't even be news.
So I have to accept Kim Kardashian making a joke out of a the sanctuary of marriage but I have to condemn a man who contributes to society, is peaceful to his neighbors, and has been loyal to his significant other for years because he's gay? The gay community just wants insurance and benefits for their significant other, their not asking us for permission.
With the gang and violence wars in our own inner cities, with the troops still in the middle east while CEO's get rich, while our housing market still being a disaster you'd think we'd have better subjects to get emotional about.
I'll just bite my tongue on this topic!
Btw, shouldn't Nebraska coaches be more concerned with how they are going to stop Urban's Offense?
This post was edited by buckeyesMJ 2 years ago
247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports