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I'm not sure why your arguing points that haven't been made. Of course Penn State is not accountable for Sandusky's individual act of raping boys. Penn State is being held accountable for their systemic cover up at the highest levels of the university once the crimes were known.
Again, just because they did nothing to Baylor doesn't mean they didn't have the power to. It sounds to me as if it is just they "hey, this isn't fair defense."
and now all the psu fans are all excited again and are anticipating reduced sanctions. dear lord, how pathetic. some were on their way to accepting all this and moving forward and now this vote-hungry pathetic old man has them optimistic again. it's like 1 year ago all over again.
I read the first 8 pages of the lawsuit and left it at that. I agree that the NCAA overstepped their power. I agree the "football culture" at Penn State that the NCAA cited in their decision is no different than it is at OSU, Alabama, Notre Dame, etc. etc. I think most of the allegations against the NCAA in this suit are spot on.
I'd be very surprised if they win the lawsuit, however.
Covering up crimes is also not against NCAA rules and regulations. It never has been. There is a reason why Emmert needed to get special power to hand down sanctions. There is a reason why the former president of the NCAA said that the NCAA overstepped their boundaries.
By giving new life to this sad episode in PeeSU's past perhaps Corbett, a stupid politician like most of them, might be guaranteeing that O'Brian does leave. Why would he want to put up with all of this again?
This post was edited by bucksnnuts2 18 months ago
so you think ADs, presidents and coaches at OSU Alabama ND etc....are all currently covering up sex crimes to protect their football program?
If you mean that fans and schools love their football a little too much and place too much importance in it, then fine. but when you talk about culture, trust me.....that little community in the middle of nowhere is corrupt and backwards and this whole debacle proves it.
first of all, it is against the NCAA if it is done so to protect the brand of PSU football so you can continue to recruit, win and bring in $$$. you know, like the letter your red headed coach who could have stopped all this signed about PSU not having any infractions against it and using it as a tool to attempt to get recruits? How ironic that this dude was signing those letters when he knew the shit that was going on there. Just turn a blind eye and follow my leader....the God named Paterno.
secondly, there does happen to be a morality clause that the NCAA can really do whatever they want if they find it not in the best interest of the NCAA and all of its members.
You know, you guys are so pissed off at the NCAA and the Big10.....why don't you just go away and play by yourselves? The NCAA doesn't own you, defect. And 99% of your fanbase hates the big10 and how unfairly you poor people get treated.....so just leave.
This post was edited by boomboom 18 months ago
I'd be really shocked if they win the suit and get everything removed. Might they get some of the sanctions reduced? Perhaps, but we'll see. If no one really thinks the school wasn't involved in this suit, they need to think again. They gave the look of "poor little us vs. the mean old NCAA. We are just a helpless little innocent victim in the mess, so we have to just take it." Now, they are hiding behind the governor of the state of PA. The suit just mirrors what this delusional fan base has been bitching about since day one...that it is a legal and not an NCAA issue. Well, the NCAA made it their issue because there is evidence of a cover up to keep the football program out of the news, thus allowing Sandusky free to do his thing for years while using the program as bait. The cover up IS a morals violation. No, the NCAA didn't punish Baylor, but they could have. Paterno, McQuery, Spainer, Curly, or Shultz could have maned up and stopped this horrific event at any time. They didn't, and they didn't to protect the brand name, and all the $, and winning tradition that program had. Like you said Boom, McQuery sent letters out to recruits boasting about how clean a program they ran while he knew all this mess was getting ready to hit the fan.
and corbett could give 2 shits about psu by the way. by the time any of this is decided or not decided he will have already won or lost reelection and that's all he cares about--votes. And based upon pathetic psu fans I know, it looks like he may pick up a few with this grandstanding.
New BIG divisions: Legends and Pedophiles. I guess PeeSU fan is just fine with their football program and facilities being used to facilitate destruction of young lives, while the President and AD "talk with Joe" and decide to lie and cover it up for years. Gee, no recruiting advantage to keep that disgusting, degenerate trurth from the NCAA and everyone else.
The problem with NCAA punishments is that they are inconsistent and seem to be driven by the media or the court of public opinion.
I don't blame the state of Pennsylvania for challenging these sanctions. They were seemingly a kneejerk reaction to the Freeh report. Particularly the $60 million dollar fine that goes to victims of pedophilia.
So, far NCAA punishments have been far worse than legal punishments, which in many cases haven't been handed down at all yet. These were criminal acts that should have been handled in a court of law, and through civil lawsuits.
I understand why they would fight it. What I don't understand is how they can say the Freeh report is flawed? The school paid this guy (former director of the FBI), to do an independent investigation of the goings on. What reason would he have to screw this up? None. Okay, so he couldn't get Paterno, Chultz, Spainer, or Curly's input. So what? He found the paper trail. Paterno is dead, the other three have all been brought up on charges of perjury. I'm pretty sure JoePa may now be pending charges if he had lived. I do understand the NCAA is very inconsistant in their punishment. They always have been. Perhaps this will help remedy that. The NCAA posed to the school president these facts, accept this punishment and begin to heal, or continue to let this drag out for the next couple of years, and we'll come in and tear the place apart, and your punishment will most likely be worse. Lord knows what else would have been found? Every little violation they claim to have NEVER done would have bee dug up as well. The president accepted the penalties for a reason. Now they are hiding a governor pending reelection. Yeah, right! Lotsa luck guys!
Hey, how about the Governor of Ohio sues the NCAA as well? You know, they exceeded their bounds because we had 5 players who legally traded their own personal property for goods or services & the NCAA's rules prohibit that, thus harming the financial well being of those student athletes and their families. Hey, and all Jim Tressel did was to do his get third hand info, he looked into it by questioning the players and was satisfied with their answer. When he signed his compliance affidavit, he truly felt he was telling the truth! This is basically the same flimsy excuse as the state of PA's contention. The NCAA bullied PeeSU into accepting the sanctions by threatening much worse as well as telling them they better not even think about appealing. PA's Governor is grandstanding in attempt to please his masses in his bid for reelection
One could say that Ohio State was completely about NCAA rules - illegal benefits, not reporting illegal benefits, etc...
On the other hand most of what happened at PSU was criminal / civil matter.
Curley, Schultz, and Spanier still have not been tried or convicted of anything. I would feel more comfortable with NCAA sanctions after trials took place.
With USC, Ohio State, and Penn State NCAA acted strong to quell public demand for harsh punishments. With North Carolina, Oregon, Miami they seem to be acting with less swiftness or harshness. With $Cam Newton and Auburn they found a loophole - $Cam didn't know about his father's actions, etc... to allow $Cam to play v. Alabama and in National Championship game - here it was through inaction that they quelled public demand for action.
It's looking more and more like the NCAA bases punishment on what the media and court of public opinion desires!
I have no doubt that Oregon - backed by Phil Knight and Nike - will get a slap on the wrist! There is no public outrage for there to be harsh and swift punishment. Most people don't know anything about recruiting services being paid to steer players to certain programs, but they know about playing illegal players in games and pedophilia.
Because selling your personal property due to your status as a student athlete is a clear NCAA violation along with Tressel not taking that information to Smith (which I think he did, but there is no proof of that... JT took the bullet). Covering up a crime is not. That's the difference.
Look, we can go back on forth on this all day. The fact of the matter is, there is nothing in the NCAA rulebook prohibiting criminal acts (because they are outside their jurisdiction), they have never acted upon sanctioning a school for criminal acts (despite opportunities to do so), there was no due process and the NCAA used it's power as a monopoly to coerce PSU into signing the decree.
This post was edited by getmyjive11 18 months ago
That's where all of you guys are WRONG. There is NO difference BECAUSE what was being covered up does not matter it's the WHY it was being covered up. It was all for the same reason............to keep winning, keep recruiting and keep making $$. Tats was covered up and rape was covered up to protect the brands!! It doesn't matter whether the cover up was to cover up something that was an NCAA rule or not....it is the cover up itself that breaks the NCAA rules. And you guys just simply do not want to say that out loud. I know you are not dumb, but you just hope people don't bring up this fairly obviously assessment.
If I rob a bank to pay back someone I owe money to or I rob a bank just because I don't want to work anymore.....what's the difference? I robbed a bank. Both Tressel and PSU officials covered stuff up to play football players who would not have played or to protect the brand and keep recruiting and winning.
That's a fact! Boom, these guys are entitled to their opinion if it makes them feel better. It's their choice to fight the good fight. Like I said, I'll be shocked if the suit gets anything more than perhaps a few of the schollies back, if that. What it might get them is a full blown NCAA investigation started that the school president obviously didn't want to see happen. That is why he accepted the sanctions. Gee, I wonder why? If that happens, then we'll know how dirty they REALLY are, and just how much more we don't know yet, as well as whatever other violations all the snooping around digs up. I'm sure the fine folks over in State College have used this time wisely to to burn, delete, and shread. Too bad the NCAA computer gurus can pull still usually pull up what they are looking for.
OMFG! Those tattoos were just SUCH an awful scandal compared to covering up for a respected former staff member and his little child rape problem for years to protect the brand name and maintain competitive advantage. That is the facts of the violations. That is why PeeSU got the hammer, that is why I believe they'll stay hammered. The matter of the law is a whole different issue. The NCAA saw a major cover up to protect the brand name, and protect its football $ machine. How many recruits would have never dreamed of going to Penn State if this scandal had been out years ago? There is the competitive advantage gained. Game, set, match. That is not even mentioning the morality issue.
I know a few of them....they are currently wearing scarlet & gray!!!
Boom, why do you think the Boy Scouts of America and the Catholic Church covered up the sex crimes that took place under their jurisdiction? Why did West Point and the Air Force Academy cover up rapes of coeds? They didn't do it to protect their football program. No institution wants to be know for sex crimes.
And Yes, I think that ND has done their best to cover up a sex crime that took place at their school.
They do not have football programs, obviously. But they do make money, just like PSU football. Money they would not make if everyone knew what they know now. They covered up sex crimes the same reason PSU did, to protect the brand. Was that supposed to make my point or your point? I am confused.
It was supposed to make my point...whatever that was.
Let me first state that I have not read the lawsuit.
I have a friend at work who is a PSU grad whom I respect. He indidcated that the lawsuit was about the fact that the NCAA has overstepped in levying the $60M fine. That the NCAA can not dictate how state appropriated funds can be used or be sent to a private organization without approval,of the state.
Anyone who has read the lawsuit read it that way?
The suit is posted on here. I just saw a lot of how it is going to effect the business around State College and a lot of poor little PeeSU vs, the mean old NCAA and how they are being picked on and made an example of without due process. The suit is fairly lengthy, and I didn't notice that part of it when I looked at it. I don't have time to look for that right now, but that DOES sound like it makes some sense to me. That plus the governor is running fro re-election. If that is the case. all it should mean is that the $ is re-worked. If true though, it makes you wonder how the NCAA's legal folks missed something that simple.
Yes, many people are stating that keeping the money in the state of PA may be the benefit of all this.
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