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The NCAA is wrong

  • Turdtastic said...

    I guess my biggest problem is the role of the NCAA in this entire mess. There is no doubt that there was a cover up of a criminal act. The problem with sanctions against the football program is that you punish the fans and the players who had nothing to do with the cover up or the crime itself. This is a criminal matter, not a football matter.

    Now, while there is no question the university needs to be punished, why is it happening through football? I think the University should have to take that 30 million and donate it to a child abuse treatment program, and maybe to the victims.

    This was a criminal matter... but was covered up to PROTECT THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM. Therefore, this is a football matter now. They made it this way, not the NCAA. Had they just thrown Sandusky under the bus the minute they knew something, this would not be their fate.. and the Paterno Statue would still be standing outside of the Stadium.. but you reap what you sow.

    WhiteGoodman

  • cdelia2997 said...

    Covering up for Sandusky issues for 15 years allowed them to position their school as clean and rightous. This gave them an unfair advantage in recruiting. They put the reputation of their school and football program ahead of the past and present and future victims of Sandusky. The NCAA had every right to come down heavy. A message has been sent..

    I guess that part of it I get. However this still leaves the fact that the people that had nothing to do with the crime are the ones truly being punished. Then again, it doesn't give much merit to the rules if no message is sent.

    IMO the fallout from this is only beginning. The cover up should generate more than a couple lawsuits.

    Turdtastic

  • Gobucks187TTUN said...

    It won't have to be a sex abuse. Do you understand what it means to have authority to use a blanket effect morality enforcement code? A graduate assistant gets a DUI.....NCAA sanctions. Morality clause violated even though it has nothing to do with football. Remember Gary Moller who coached for Michigan? He beat his wife. All he got was fired. Now? NCAA sanctions. Moral and ethics clause violated.

    Under age drinking? Moral and ethics clause violated. NCAA sanctions.

    You are sitting there right now saying, "That will never happen". Yes it will because people are stupid.

    I could see your point if the said grad assistant got a DUI then went to his office on campus and raped a bunch of kids in front of other coaches who reported it to their head coach who told his boss who then told the school president then met with the head coach and athletic director and decided not to report it because it would be the "humane" thing to do to the grad assistant.
    I agree with your last point. People are stupid; specifically those people who believe that the NCAA should allow its member schools to cover up child raped by a coach for more than a decade. This wasn't just an assistant coach; it involved at least the head coach, AD, and school president. Everyone in charge knew what was going on and they all agreed to hide it to protect their program, it's reputation, and its culture.

    TruckerNut

  • TruckerNut said...

    I could see your point if the said grad assistant got a DUI then went to his office on campus and raped a bunch of kids in front of other coaches who reported it to their head coach who told his boss who then told the school president then met with the head coach and athletic director and decided not to report it because it would be the "humane" thing to do to the grad assistant. I agree with your last point. People are stupid; specifically those people who believe that the NCAA should allow its member schools to cover up child raped by a coach for more than a decade. This wasn't just an assistant coach; it involved at least the head coach, AD, and school president. Everyone in charge knew what was going on and they all agreed to hide it to protect their program, it's reputation, and its culture.

    You do realize that "morality" and "ethics" are not just involved in child molestation cases, right?

    "The only thing That Team Up North will be tasting this year is the salty tears of defeat" - UFM

    Gobucks187TTUN

  • WhiteGoodman said...

    This was a criminal matter... but was covered up to PROTECT THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM. Therefore, this is a football matter now. They made it this way, not the NCAA. Had they just thrown Sandusky under the bus the minute they knew something, this would not be their fate.. and the Paterno Statue would still be standing outside of the Stadium.. but you reap what you sow.

    I'm not saying the program shouldn't be punished, it just seems like the entirety of the punishment is landing on the team. The real punishment should and I expect will be levied in the form of criminal charges against those actively participating in the cover up.

    Turdtastic

  • Gobucks187TTUN said...

    You do realize that "morality" and "ethics" are not just involved in child molestation cases, right?

    You do realize that little boys were knowingly raped in a shower in the football locker room by a football coach and everyone at the school decided not to report it?

    This post was edited by TruckerNut on 7/23/2012 at 8:55 AM

    TruckerNut

  • TruckerNut said...

    You do realize that little boys were knowingly raped in a shower in the football locker room by a football coach and everyone at the school decided not to report it?

    You quoted my post so I assumed you read it. My mistake.

    "The only thing That Team Up North will be tasting this year is the salty tears of defeat" - UFM

    Gobucks187TTUN

  • Turdtastic said...

    I'm not saying the program shouldn't be punished, it just seems like the entirety of the punishment is landing on the team. The real punishment should and I expect will be levied in the form of criminal charges against those actively participating in the cover up.

    And they have been. Sandusky is in jail. The former heads of university have been charged with crimes for their role in this. Where have you been? The punishment is getting handed out in plenty of different directions. But to say the cover up did not benefit the football program is extremely ignorant and naive. I'm not saying you specifically are saying that.. but plenty of others are.

    This post was edited by WhiteGoodman on 7/23/2012 at 8:59 AM

    WhiteGoodman

  • Gobucks187TTUN said...

    You quoted my post so I assumed you read it. My mistake.

    Okay, I guess I missed your point. I understand that you are saying that child raped and subsequent cover up from the coaching staff, athletic department and school president are morally and ethically equivalent to an asisitant coach buying a beer for an underaged kid.

    TruckerNut

  • WhiteGoodman said...

    And they have been. Sandusky is in jail. The former heads of university have been charged with crimes for their role in this. Where have you been? The punishment is getting handed out in plenty of different directions. But to say the cover up did not benefit the football program is extremely ignorant and naive. I'm not saying you specifically are saying that.. but plenty of others are.

    Being charged /= punishment. That will come with the convictions, thus my comment about expecting they will be levied. I'm just questioning the role of the NCAA as the primary arm of punishment thus far.

    The primary question for me is: What about the kids on the team? Here is a group of athletes that had absolutely nothing to do with this mess and now they're lives are being upended. This is the issue with the NCAA in general and their lousy system of punishment. Admittedly the program is so intertwined its hard to issue an effective punishment without touching people that had nothing to do with it. I just wish there was a better way to do it.

    And I'd like to see the money from the fine go directly to a charity that benefits abused children. Not into the NCAA coffer.

    Turdtastic

  • Turdtastic said...

    I guess my biggest problem is the role of the NCAA in this entire mess. There is no doubt that there was a cover up of a criminal act. The problem with sanctions against the football program is that you punish the fans and the players who had nothing to do with the cover up or the crime itself. This is a criminal matter, not a football matter.

    Now, while there is no question the university needs to be punished, why is it happening through football? I think the University should have to take that 30 million and donate it to a child abuse treatment program, and maybe to the victims.

    Punishing the fans IS the point - the CULTURE has to change. The point is that, if they covered THIS up, what else would they cover up "for the good of the program and Penn State"? How can you trust them on compliance UNLESS they change the culture - and that means the fans that support it, too. As I've said before, with all the stuff we heard about that their players did that go handled by Joe Pa "in the program" by his discipline - think about all the things that probably got swept under the rug. You know, the cops come to Joe Pa instead of arresting a player? Letting Joe punish them instead of a court? Not to mention recruiting or other issues.

    Nope - this type of punishment had to happen to wake those people up and change the emphasis of that program. Heck, listen to the students/fans/etc. since Sandusky! It isn't just denial - it is their belief system!

    CGHSBuck

  • Turdtastic said...

    Being charged /= punishment. That will come with the convictions, thus my comment about expecting they will be levied. I'm just questioning the role of the NCAA as the primary arm of punishment thus far.

    The primary question for me is: What about the kids on the team? Here is a group of athletes that had absolutely nothing to do with this mess and now they're lives are being upended. This is the issue with the NCAA in general and their lousy system of punishment. Admittedly the program is so intertwined its hard to issue an effective punishment without touching people that had nothing to do with it. I just wish there was a better way to do it.

    And I'd like to see the money from the fine go directly to a charity that benefits abused children. Not into the NCAA coffer.

    As far as the players go, they have the opportunity to go to any other school they want with no loss of playing time. If they choose to stay, that is their decision.

    I had heard that the money was going into just such a trust.

    CGHSBuck

  • This whole situation had everything to do with football and the NCAA had every right to do what they did. Ethics and moral conduct aside, they protected the program by covering up any negative issues. Creating an illegal competitive advantage and illegally preventing a competitive disadvantage is the same thing.

    BuckDigger ●

  • CGHSBuck said...

    Punishing the fans IS the point - the CULTURE has to change. The point is that, if they covered THIS up, what else would they cover up "for the good of the program and Penn State"? How can you trust them on compliance UNLESS they change the culture - and that means the fans that support it, too. As I've said before, with all the stuff we heard about that their players did that go handled by Joe Pa "in the program" by his discipline - think about all the things that probably got swept under the rug. You know, the cops come to Joe Pa instead of arresting a player? Letting Joe punish them instead of a court? Not to mention recruiting or other issues.

    Nope - this type of punishment had to happen to wake those people up and change the emphasis of that program. Heck, listen to the students/fans/etc. since Sandusky! It isn't just denial - it is their belief system!

    Wut? No it isn't. Punishing the fans, for what exactly? Being fans? They weren't complicit in the scandal.

    Turdtastic

  • CGHSBuck said...

    As far as the players go, they have the opportunity to go to any other school they want with no loss of playing time. If they choose to stay, that is their decision.

    I had heard that the money was going into just such a trust.

    Good, that's exactly where that money should go.

    Turdtastic

  • Turdtastic said...

    Wut? No it isn't. Punishing the fans, for what exactly? Being fans? They weren't complicit in the scandal.

    Yes, it is. To the extent you can even think that not being able to watch the "same" football team (rather a diminished version thereof) is any kind of "punishment", the fans do need to be brought to realize WHAT they are supporting (supported) with their current (even today) denial of what happened, what Joe Pa did and why it was done. To the extent that the fans are part of the culture - and therefore the problem - at Penn State, yes they too are "punished". Beyond getting the enjoyment of the competition - and maybe decreasing their fanaticism, as intended - this shouldn't affect their lives. For the fans that are affected in their real lives - the real homers - that is for the better. To the extent that they ennabled this and blindly built up the program beyond all else, they are responsible if not complicit.

    CGHSBuck

  • M Runner said...

    Where is the due process? In a rush to judgement we bypass the appropriate committees, investigations, and lengthly process that insures they get it right?

    They give the power to ONE individual to access the vastness and scope of what happened and levy the correct punishment?

    And, the primary piece of testimony/evidence that's being used was a report bought and paid for by none other than the offending program?

    This doesn't even smell right. I think everyone involved just wants to seal this up in a garbage bag and dispose of immediately. I'm curious if there will be a provision that more severe penalties are forthcoming if more is discovered. I'm pretty skeptical of the whole thing.

    Your right the NCAA got it wrong, IMO they let PSU off easy. The death penalty should have been invoked.

    jwm552002

  • jwm552002 said...

    Your right the NCAA got it wrong, IMO they let PSU off easy. The death penalty should have been invoked.

    As the day goes along, I am agreeing with this more and more. I was in favor of the program being put down for a couple of years before the announcement, but thought "hey, maybe this is severe enought that they will get it". But then I see things like this:

    http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/53710/twitter-reaction-to-penn-state-sanctions#comment

    I have to tell you, it looks like - based on those tweets - they should have gotten the death penalty.

    CGHSBuck

  • I'm stunned by the NCAA sanctions and will have to give it some time before I'm sure how I feel about it. Questions that come to my mind:

    I know pedophiles have been protected in some dioceses of the Catholic Church historically in this and other countries. What should happen to the Catholic Church?

    Pedophiles and covering for them or looking the other way has been around for a long time. This isn't something new. What if Sandusky was in the math department and the department chair found out about it and looked the other way. What should happen to the math department?

    This post was edited by Jimmy77 on 7/23/2012 at 2:15 PM

    signature image signature image signature image

    Jimmy77

  • Some of you really need to listen to the whole statement from NCAA president Mark Emmert before you give your opinions. For those of you who do not feel that the NCAA has the authority to impose these sanctions, then I want to explain that all of this cover up happened because all of the Penn State "powers to be" covered up information and lied to anyone who asked questions for more than 14 years. That includes the head coach, president of the university, and the athletic director. How in the frikin world can you honestly say that the NCAA does not have the authority to hammer these people. All of this happened to protect a program and two football coaches. If the NCAA does not have the authority, then who does. I am not talking about criminal charges. I am talking about charges against an athletic program which operates under the NCAA authority and knowingly lied and covered up any and all information regarding this case.

    For those of you who say that the wrong people are being harmed, all of the football players can stay or transfer immediately. They do not have to sit out a year. They do not lose their scholarship if they stay and decide to not play football.

    Lastly, all everyone seems to be talking about is not who they should be talking about. The poor kids who were raped and abused are the ones that some people seem to forget.

    buckeyedr

  • Personally I feel that PSU is lucky this is happening quick, because if it keeps dragging on a lot worse information could come out for the NCAA to do far worse to the program.

    chunkfat8

  • chunkfat8 said...

    Personally I feel that PSU is lucky this is happening quick, because if it keeps dragging on a lot worse information could come out for the NCAA to do far worse to the program.

    Over on the Big Ten Blog, they're reporting that Penn State agreed to these sanctions - to a certain extent got to bargain for them - because the NCAA was going to hand down the death penalty. As the Penn State President said - their back was to the wall (no jokes...!).

    CGHSBuck

  • CGHSBuck said...

    Over on the Big Ten Blog, they're reporting that Penn State agreed to these sanctions - to a certain extent got to bargain for them - because the NCAA was going to hand down the death penalty. As the Penn State President said - their back was to the wall (no jokes...!).

    I was glad when Emmert said today that PSU was told what the penalties would be and they did not get to negotiate.

    Razorback

  • Gobucks187TTUN said...

    It won't have to be a sex abuse. Do you understand what it means to have authority to use a blanket effect morality enforcement code? A graduate assistant gets a DUI.....NCAA sanctions. Morality clause violated even though it has nothing to do with football. Remember Gary Moller who coached for Michigan? He beat his wife. All he got was fired. Now? NCAA sanctions. Moral and ethics clause violated.

    Under age drinking? Moral and ethics clause violated. NCAA sanctions.

    You are sitting there right now saying, "That will never happen". Yes it will because people are stupid.

    of course you are right ...but most of these people here are blinded by their ped state hatred or just arent very smart

    wildebuck

  • Disagree, fast judgment was better for everyone even the children involved. The penalties were severe and while I wish the NCAA had more power to punish the actual offenders they will get their due process.

    Charske

Ohio State
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