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Talk a little Buckeye basketball with your fellow Ohio State hoopsters

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Record: 10904 (2/4/2012)

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Bucknutin' But Net

Talk a little Buckeye basketball with your fellow Ohio State hoopsters

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This team is horrible!

  • From coach to players this team is horrible. We have one legit scorer in Thomas. Our point guard is the worst offensively. No penetration breaking down defenses, just standing around the perimeter passing. Shannon Scott is the better PG overall. Our big men are ridiculous, ravenel tries he's just not that good. Williams just throws shots up praying they'll go in. Decent shot blocker. Thompson great athlete no offense. Lenzelle still too streaky! And worst off all the coach really doesn't have a clue. Would you please take craft out sometimes, he is not a All American. He is a great defender but average overall. Give Ross a legit chance to gain confidence instead of taking him out all the time.you have athletes and length go back to the zone sometimes. Right now we are the laughing stock of the.big ten

  • Didn't get to see the game, saw the score, but forgot to record it. BY the looks of things, I am glad I didn't.

  • Sad to say but nit is in the future for this flawed squad. Too many good teams in the big ten.

  • You are making some fair points, but overall, your post is way too negative. Indeed, it was a horrible game in many ways and I can see why fans are bitter, but I see Matta and the players making some adjustments and improving. Every team in the BIG is going to have a couple of games like this, Illinois had one last week against Purdue.

    Better days are ahead. The positive is that there is plenty of room to improve (this will help Matta get the attention of the players) and many games (i.e. opportunities) left to turn things around. It is still early. Better to peak at the end of the season vs. the beginning. The last couple seasons, I would argue that we peaked too early. Even in the run to the Final 4 last season, that team played better basketball against Duke early in the season.

    I would like to see Scott and Craft in the starting line-up along with Smith, Williams, and Thomas. If nothing else, we know we can get better defensive pressure from the guards which can lead to some turnovers. This team desparately needs easy fast break or transition buckets to get out of the gate early and build momentum. One criticism of Matta is that his teams typically let the opponent set tempo and respond to it. In years past, we had the talent edge to pull this off and still be successful, but that does not appear to be the case this year. Yes, we can beat Nebraska with that style, but it is not going to work against the top half of the BIG and that is one thing that became apparent yesterday. This is an adjustment that Matta needs to make.

  • This team just really needs some scorers to emerge, which could easily happen by the end of the year. Craft and especially Scott are good at dribble penetration but have nobody to give the ball up to and are too short to finish at the rim against big men. If Williams emerged as a scorer, it would allow them to score on some of those drives. Q looks terrible but it isn't a lack of talent so there is hope. We all know Smith can be a shooter sometimes, he just needs to be more consistent, Q could shoot, and I agree we may need to look at Delavalle to emerge. Thomas has no breathing room and is taking poor shots out of frustration.

    Bottom line, we are one game out of first place in the B1G and caught a very streaky Illinois team on a good night. There are going to be more games like that, but we also will be the hot team with some games. No way this is an NIT team, 9-9 gets us in the dance, 8-10 probably does and I don't see us doing worse than that. We do have a tough conference slate, with Purdue, Iowa, PSU and Minny as our one game teams, but we will beat some good teams and have a solid RPI at the end of the year.

    Matta has won a lot with talent but also won a lot with less talent. He clearly is trying to find a rotation that works still and this team is very much a work in progress. Contrasted with some of the previous years where the team was pretty set early in the year but did not improve as much as the year progressed.

  • If they cant shoot now they arent going to learn by end of year

  • My fault was in the lack of hustle right from the opening tip, as opposed to Illinois who's coach had them "ready to play". We never were in this game, right from the 5-0 lead the Illini took.
    The telling stat--10 TO's inthe first half that lead to 16 Illini points, who lead by 12 at half time.
    Hopefully this is a wake -up call for Matta and the guys!

  • Matta is just not that good of a coach. He is an outstanding recruiter, but his game time adjustments and rotations are terrible. He either leaves players in too long or he waits until a player heats up as little and pulls them out. In one game earlier this season, Thompson was the only player being aggressive early. Matta pulled him instead of seeing where his offense goes. He has done the same with Smith and Ross at different times this year. But then Craft can come down the floor on multiple occasions and turn the ball over or take terrible shots and he just stays in no matter what. He is not that good.

    Scott is a better point guard by far. It is not even close. And his defense is not that far off of Crafts. Smith is way too streaky to be counted on. Thomas is not a leader. He can score and that is it. Thomas and Craft spend way to much time whining to the officials with their hands in the air. Craft even ended the Final Four game doing it.
    Williams was playing good against Nebraska and got pulled with 16 minutes to go and never returned. He needed those minutes to get better. He had 8 points, 7 rebounds, and 4 or 5 blocks. Why pull him? To give Ravenal more time? Rave seems to be a good guy and a hard worker, but he is too undersized and unskilled to make a difference.

    Ross has NBA talent but has not been allowed to work through the kinks and let the game slow down for him. He is not a Matta type guy it seems. That's ok for him because neither was Cook, Koufos, or Mullens and all are still in the NBA. After the summer camps, the pre season mags all had Ross listed as a top ten Small Forward. These weren't Buckets fans. Even Penn and Redd have said he has the most talent. Somehow he is stuck behind Lenzelle Smith. Really? Really? Kind of like when Mullens was stuck behind Lauderdale or when Cook was stuck behind Butler. Cook played 3 or 4 second half minutes I think of the title game. Matta just seems to like the blue collar, work hard and over achieve guys over the NBA talent. I mean even Turner was stuck behind Diebler at first.

    In the past Matta was just bailed out by great talent. Sullinger, Buford, Turner, Oden, Connely, Lewis, all bailed this team out in key games over the years while Matta stood there and chewed gum aggressively. No x's and o's, no adjusting the line up. Just chew and pray that something happens. When his team gets far behind he just sits there smiling. Well Craft and Thomas just don't have that mindset and or ability. They are both really good third or fourth options. Who cares how much they can score against Ohio Dominican? In big games they just will not have enough.

    Scott should start at point guard, Ross should play at least 25 minutes a game, Williams is our only hope at Center. Let the guys play and learn. All three of these guys have possible NBA talent. Let them show it. Right now, Thompson is not much more than a new age Kenny Gregory, Ravenal is a poor man's Zach Williams, Craft is playing like Fuss-Cheatham, Smith thinks he is David Lighty but he isn't, and Thomas is a taller Jamie Skelton. Either Matta makes major adjustments or this will be a long year.

  • I like your thinking villebuckeye. I'm glad someone else but me recognized the problem. If matta don't make any adjustments to his coaching lack there of and the lineups we will be nit bound

  • Sorry VillBuckeye, while I don't disagree on every point you made, I was compelled to downvote you for comparing Craft to Fuss-Cheatam. That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on Bucknuts. We are all a little pissed off and bitter after a bad performance, but we are nowhere near Fuss-Cheatam territory!

  • Yeah Matta is a bad coach who lead Ohio State to two Final Fours, lead Xavier to an Elite Eight and has had alot of twenty win seasons at three different schools he coached while as a head coach, numerous Big Ten championships and a shitload of Big Ten Tournament championships. He is a poor coach. LOL!
    Williams is the future at center. What the f..k are you smoking, VillBuckeye? Williams can't even hold the ball under the post. He is one of the weakest centers in the history of OSU basketball. Ross turns the ball over so many damn times it is pathetic. Matta knows what he has right now and he has recruited poorly over the last two seasons. Williams and Scott are not McDonald's All American caliber players. Right now, you have one scorer and a bunch of guys of poor shooters on the team. This current team is athletic but they got outhustled, out toughed by Illinois and this current team has no heart, desire and passion. They are chemistry issues with this current team and they are more problems than most fans know about right now. Purdue is not going to be easy to play and Ohio State had better show up or they are going to get blown off the court just like Illinois.

  • Good point Jimmie. We were not ready when we got off the bus.

    I see you have joined the big shots on the VIP board. How is it?

  • I think it is going to be a long season. There is just something missing....maybe it is just heart/desire or a weird mix of players. The whole thing just does not feel right to me and I am not sure exactly why. We have played three good teams and lost to three good teams. There is still time to have a good or even great season but they will need to find the right recipe pretty quickly.

    This post was edited by buckeyeinwv 15 months ago

  • I agree, Matta is a good coach, just having a bad year to start off with. Very young team to work with. I do agree with Williams as well. Put some sticky shit on his hands. If I was Matta I would say stay around the paint and don't ever dribble. Hell don't even let that ball touch the floor. Every time he gets striped or loses it OOB.

    To me it's about the conference. This is what happens when you have 2-3 solid teams and you dominate the league for years. Then the rest of the teams hire good coaches, recruit well, and are now on par or even better than what we have. I just wish we can say the same as in football as well. But it seems like we are heading into the opposite direction in that sport.

  • Craft shooing less than 40% for.the YEAR ... He is not very good. Half of basketball is offense.

  • Many good posts and comments here. The Craft/Scott situation is fascinating to me. They are both point guards that are better defensively than offensively. They both struggle with their shoot. The edge to me would go to Scott because he's quicker and does a better job of pushing tempo. When Matta plays them together for a lot of minutes I don't get it. Playing them together in small spurts is o.k. but when they are both on the floor you just don't have to guard them in the half court. The bottomline is it comes down to talent. And in basketball if you have talent and can play you usually can play as a freshman. You rarely see remarkable improvements in players over their 4 years. Kids now-a-days play so much ball growing up with AAU that they are what they are when they arrive. Certainly they improve some but not the dramatic type of improvement we would need to see from say a Williams to be an elite type B1G center. So far the sophomore class has been disappointing. You see some good things now and then but there is no all-big ten type performer in that class to date. Unless Ross becomes the kind of player the experts say he is this team will struggle and Matta will go 2 straight classes (sophomore and freshman this year) with no NBA caliber players. With the improvement of the conference Matta needs to take the program even higher if he intends to keep OSU among the elite. We need to start getting the one and done type talents again and sooner rather than later.

    This post was edited by shep777 15 months ago

  • I really like Aaron Craft but he has been forced into a postion this year of having to score and that is not who he is. He also seems a little slower on D....maybe it is just me.

  • You can have all the athletes you want but if you don't have scorers you can't make them scorers during the season!
    This team lacks natural scorers perhaps the guy with the black mop hair can score,ross can score both have tooth pick arms and are prob liabilities on defense! I still think this team can win 20 games there are bad teams in the B1G just not many!
    Matta needs to start getting Thompson and others into the lane and play attack the basket a bit and run run every chance they get.
    Smith is horrible against good competition!

  • Shep your forgetting why Ohio state was able to get talent like they got the last few years.
    Indiana was bad and we pretty much raped that state every year and Thomas is the last,because the Hosiers are Back and Wolverines are back! That kills our recruiting base.
    Also Kentucky is now a force again that don't help!
    Welcome back to Ohio State being mediocre most years!

  • Fuss-Cheatham 04-05--5.1 ppg, 2 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.7 st, 1.2 to, .381 fg%, .349 3 fg%
    22 minutes per game

    Craft this year-- 8.5 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 4.9 apg, 1.9 st, 1.3 to, .368 fg%, .333 3 fg%
    31 minutes a game.

    So craft scores more and has slightly more rebounds and assists, but he plays 9 more minutes a game. And Fuss-Cheathams numbers are skewed a bit because he was benched for Butler halfway through. Fuss-Cheatham shoots field goals and threes at a better percentage.

    And bigger than all of that is the fact that neither one of them take control of their team. They both just wine all the time to the refs. So to me he is playing like Fuss-Cheatham. Scott has shown that he is the better point guard. Craft was hidden over the first two years by other great players. There is nowhere to hide now. He reminds me of that Wisconsin player a few years back. I think his name was Kelly. He had all this hype his first two years and then by the time he was a junior every one figured out his game and he was nothing special. He kind of faded away from the national spotlight.

    So downvote all you want, I don't even know what that means or care.

  • Never said Williams is the future at Center. I said he is our only hope. So what are you smoking? Ravenal and McDonald are not real options. That is a fact.

    As far as Matta, this is a two part problem. He was a different coach before the foot surgery. Go Back and watch the old games. Way more involved, way more xs and os. He would be down in a defensive stance the whole game. Very fired up. Now he is in extreme pain at all times. He is a different coach.

    The second point is that even at Xavier he had NBA players on the team. He recruits well and then sits back and watches the talent perform. He is kind of hands off for the most part. Jent draws up plays. Matta is more like a football head coach now watching his coordinators run the team. Problem is he used to have better coordinators who are now gone to be head coaches elsewhere.

    Big Matta flops- Cooks playing time in the title game when we could not score.
    Mullens playing time his whole year.
    Thomas playing time in the sweet sixteen loss to Kentucky when we couldn't score.
    Ross playing time against Duke this year.

    Where are the adjustments? Just chewing gum.

  • Even though you are trying to cherry pick, you made the case with the numbers you posted. The only statistic where Craft isn't somewhat better or much better than Fuss Cheatham is FG percentage. And I agree that Craft is in a pretty severe shooting slump right now. I think you will find he hit a better percentage his Freshman and Sophmore years. Craft is about to become the all time leader in steals and has been the starting point guard on BIG championship teams and a team that made it to the Final Four. Since he took over, look at the success. Look at the winning percentage of teams over the era.

    And if you are not convinced by looking at these statistics, you need to go and rewatch some of the games from the Fuss-Cheatham era. Try the old fashioned eye-test.

    This has got to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever seen made on this website.

  • is your name VillBuckeye or Village Idiot?

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  • Very true about recruiting getting tougher but we are far from doomed. Ohio has a ton of hoops talent but was down the past couple years. We are in the thick for a lot of top talent in 2014. Matta had made some recruiting errors by not going after some solid Ohio talent

    It is rare for basketball teams to not have down years with all of the one and dones, small scholarship limits etc. One or two recruits can make a huge difference. OSU doesn't look any worse than KY or UNC this year.

    I do think Matta needs to rethink his recruiting. He needs more plan B players. I hate how he signs six guys in one class and one in the next. There is no reason to have a roster short 3 guys this year and probably next year. One or two is OK but three is not.

  • Just a bit too negative but based on when you posted this you were probably a little too emotional.......

    That was literally one of the most frustrating games i have watched in some time....and honestly, i spent more time watching the HS All Star game on NBC. I watched half of the first half then 3 min of the second half and stopped altogether. Thankfully for twitter i could keep up on the non-progress so i really did not have to watch that debacle.

    I did not feel like we were going to win that game going into if (especially after Illinois lost at Purdue) but i did not expect a team that looked that flat and uninspired.

    To say the coaches are horrible is ridiculous.....so i am not even going to address that comment. But this team is not good...we are not horrible, we just had a REALLY REALLY bad performance. However, out of 3 true "tests" we have failed all three.

    I will say that Matta's "experiement" of staring Amir Williams should end immediately. I am sorry but Ravenal is a senior and he does have at least SOME offensive ability. He is not weak with the ball and he is physical.

    We are extremely easy to defend......and we make it even easier when we take so many F'ng quick shots. We have two legit offensive threats (well 3 but Ross does not get enough minutes to make an impact) DT and LSJ and LSJ is streaky. I have no idea what has happened to Craft but he does not look comfortable running the offense or even thinking about taking a shot. It is like he is always hesitant to shoot the ball.

    The only way this team is going to score more and at a higher % is creating transition baskets through our Defense (which was non-existent against Illinois). Matta needs to do something about our half court offensive scheme......Shannon Scott can create and penetrate much more effectively than Craft so let Scott run the point more often. they need to take DT and do one of two things and do it often........Run him off of 5 or 6 screens every offensive possesion, look to post him up to exploit mismatches (he will either get fouled or make buckets), and work some sort of two man game with DT. ( maybe even with him and LSJ or even Ravenal). DT is clearly frustrated and he is forcing shots because he feels like he HAS to because we are getting dick from everyone else offensively.

    This team still has not found their identity and having Sully in the middle has delibitated this team. They have no confidence right now.....

    The good thing is the B1G is freaking brutal.......the bad thing is the B1G is freaking brutal!!!! I see this team finishing 4th or 5th at this rate unless they can figure something out. The next two weeks could be rough traveling to Purdue, then playing scUM and Sparty.....scUM will run us off the court with their playmakers if we are not careful and Sparty will destroy us in the middle.

    Matta needs to get ROSS out there more often so he feels more confident. I don't care if he turns the ball over 4 or 5 times early on as long as he gets the experience because he will defnittely put the ball in the hoop regardless.

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  • Says the guy named Fred Flinstone............ Really? Moving on.