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Talk a little Buckeye basketball with your fellow Ohio State hoopsters

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Record: 10904 (2/4/2012)

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Bucknutin' But Net

Talk a little Buckeye basketball with your fellow Ohio State hoopsters

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This team is horrible!

  • I am a huge fan of Scott and a major proponent of Craft & Scott on the floor at the same time. I was screaming for this combination last season and feel even more strongly about it this year. I posted my reasons on the other thread this morning so I won't repeat them here.

    I also agree Craft and Thomas need to get some rest in spots. No guy should ever play more than 35 minutes as I think being overly tired eventually wears a guy down where they are less effective. I said over and over that Craft's minutes hurt his offensive production.

    Limiting the play of these two would also help bump minutes from Scott and Ross.

    I think many posters to this board are too much in a football mindset in evaluating basketball. In football, you get far fewer chances, you are more specialized, and each play stands on its own. Basketball is different, and you have to judge performance accordingly insomuch that you look at statistics over a period of time as opposed to reading so much into a single game. Overall, Craft's offense has been less than stellar so far into this season, but this is no reason to bench him. Scott brings a great deal to the table and deserves more playing time, he certainly has room to improve his offense as well, particularly his shooting.

  • Craft played well in the second half....but the "TEAM" played so much better with Craft on the bench. IMO that's what we need.

    I think it's "ridiculous" that you can't see that.

  • You should have to pass a test before posting about basketball on this forum.

  • Exactly. For this team Scott is a better fit. He is a true point guard.

  • Rell,
    OSU is horrible...? This post tells me two things about you: (1) You have a superficial knowledge of college basketball and the OSU, in particular, and (2) You are probably a customer service person's worst nightmare. Take a deep breath and then post next time.

  • Just stop. It isn't Williams. Please don't compare him to oden and sullinger. Williams is still a big time PROJECT. I like his length but that is about it.
    I agree that we need a dominant center and that is important to have in order to be a great team. Unfortunately, osu does not have anyone capable of being a dominant post player on their roster.

  • That's simply not true. You should be posting about basketball on the "Around the Shoe" football board. The posters over there think more along the same lines as you do.

  • I'm not saying that Scott is the better option (yet) but Scott has certainly improved from last year. Both are great on the defensive side of the ball though. I think we will see Scott contributing more than craft next year. He can get into the lane easier. He is more of a natural point guard, as multiple people have pointed out.
    I just wish craft or Scott could shoot. That's one of the reasons why it hurts us when both are in at the same time. That's two people that you don't really have to worry about. Craft had a solid second half vs purdue though. Hopefully he picks up where he left off.

    Also, Ross has been a big disappointment so far. He was over hyped, but why didn't he get any playing time in the second half vs purdue? He certainly deserved 5-10 minutes. It's not like The people playing are that much better. I know his defense is bad and he is slow laterally (he doesn't seem very quick to me) but he got screwed.

  • As pointed out above, I like Scott and believe he and Craft need to be on the floor together. I strongly disagree that we are somehow hurt when they are both playing. This is a relatively new experiment and it worked great against Purdue the other night.

    This team needs an identity, the best thing we have is two guards that are tenacious defenders. Think of all the good things that can come out of this. Why focus solely on the idea that neither is a great outside shooter in the half court offense? Yes, that might be a weakness, but it comes alongside many strengths.

  • I'll reprint my post from the other thread....

    You are making some fair points. But, I would argue that Craft and Scott are both doing pretty well in the assists to turnover ratio. I think they have the collective ability to place tremendous defensive pressure on the opposing guards and get turnovers and some lay-ups. They can both push the ball, get to the rim, and dish when necessary in transition. Their penetration - even in the half court - can also lead to some inside scoring from Williams on dunks or Ravenel who has a decent offensive game inside 15 feet. Don't discount the impact that Craft's opening steal and layup had against Purdue. I agree this combo makes DT a little easier to defend in a half-court offense, especially if neither of the guards, or forwards Smith, Thompson, or Ross, can hit from the outside. But DT is a good transition player, especially when he gets the hot hand.

    The goal is to get points in fast break and transition, as opposed to half-court sets. In other words, the combination of Craft and Scott is intended to increase the ratio of fast break and transition possessions to half-court possessions through the first 30-35 minutes of the game. Build a lead first, and go to the half court to run clock later in the game.

    I don't think there is a huge negative impact on our rebounding with a smaller line-up as all our guys seem to make the effort to box out and get the board. For smaller guys, Scott, Craft, and Smith all rebound well. They are all physically strong pound for pound and battle for position and aggressively go after the ball.

    I think Matta does a great job overall and there aren't many coaches out there who are better. This season, he has adjusted and addressed one of his two weak points in establishing an 8-man rotation. He is sticking with this even though Ross hasn't played up to his abilities yet. But Matta's second weakness as a coach is that he always lets the opponent dictate tempo and style of the game. He plays their game. Using the Craft-Scott combo would give us an identity of pressuring the ball and make opposing coaches adjust and counter by game planning around it. Matta is not exactly a guy who draws up the plays in a half court game, which is why he has had such a tough time in some of these games and why last years team (with Sullinger) lost more than they should have given the type of talent we had.

  • You have many good points on craft/Scott . I think that it greatly improves our transition offense. My biggest problem (which you touched upon) is that we don't really have anyone who can hit the three for a decent percentage besides Thomas. And it's not like we have some studs inside for craft and Scott to drive and dish it to. I'd rather see us mix it up a bit. Play craft and Scott together for a while, but then go big and have Ross in instead of craft or Scott. At least someone like Ross would add another outside threat to go with Thomas. Not saying Ross is anything special yet though. He definitely needs to improve and man up.
    Maybe part of the problem is that this team is just not as talented as we have had in years past. Still fun to talk buckeye basketball though.

  • Agree on many points. During Deibler's career, we always seemed to go the way he did. When his 3's were dropping, we could beat anybody, but when he struggled, we had trouble beating top-25 caliber teams. Didn't matter if we had highly consistent Evan Turner or Sullinger-led squads, Diebler was the key to the offense. I don't think it is coincidence that when we had our best team relative to the competition (10-11), we had additional outside scoring threats to Diebler in Lighty and Buford, and a pretty solid inside scoring threat in Sullinger. A young DT could really light it up as well from anywhere on the court, and he has certainly gotten better now. Without Diebler and Lighty, Buford struggled on last year's (11-12) squad to be the marksman we needed and I think had he been better for us in his senior year, or if we had a guy like Diebler to help him, we could have been right up there with Kentucky. Even though we had a nice run to the final four, I think last year's team peaked early against Duke, and the chemistry never got 100% back on track after that for a variety of reasons.

    But back to our current situation...the truth is that we lack outside shooters. DT can be deadly, but good teams are going to be able to keep him well defended in our half court offense. I think Smith Jr. is a solid all around player, but more complimentary in nature. His ability to spot up and hit from the 3 point line is very important, and he has done it pretty well in spots, usually in the transition game.

    Matta needs to start dictating tempo and playing to our best strenghts, which is to have our two awesome on-ball defenders on the floor at the same time reeking havoc on opposing point guards. Even after a made basket by the opponent, I think Scott is fast enough with the ball to possibly create transition game for us on offense. Getting out and pushing tempo is this team's best chance to score and beat somebody. We need offensive spurts and runs. If BIG teams get us in a plodding, half-court game, we are in trouble.

    New starting line-up is: Craft, Scott, Smith, Thomas, and Williams/Ravenel. The Craft-Scott combo should be on the floor together 25-30 minutes.

    Ross needs to be inserted for Smith and to spell Thomas, and I agree it is critical for him to contribute double figures for us. Same with Thompson, but he needs to get more of an offensive mindset. His shooting looks pretty good to me, his shooting form is better than Smith Jr. I would even give Della Valle a few minutes more here or there, he needs to be ready to go if Scott or Craft gets in foul trouble under the scheme that is being proposed.

  • Ohio State beats Michigan the number 2 team in the nation....

    Still horrible?

    And by horrible you mean????

    How about instead of making a dumb post and saying we ARE horrible. You should rather more intelligently say tOSU PLAYED horribly.. (Against Illinois)

    Also Craft pretty much shut down Burke, and to say any differently would be ignorant.

    To anybody saying Matta is a bad coach is a super downy... google image that if you don't know what i'm talking about. Dear god google image it.

    Now don't get me wrong I LOVE the buckeyes but when we don't match up well against Indiana and possibly go down, I hope not to see another meltdown on this board.

  • Then who is it going to be? And no one was making a comparison, do you have trouble understanding what you read?
    I said the closest thing has to be Williams, Who else we got Ravenel?

  • I agree! Bad header on this topic, this team still has a great upside and great athletes they are one of the best 10 teams in the country.

  • this team is going to have to beat one or two more top ranked teams before they prove they are a top ten team. if they can develop some outside shooting and/or an inside presence they could become a top ten team. just beating michigan alone doesn't do it for me. i'm not sure michigan really believed they would lose until the very end of the game. even down as much as they were they didn't seem to be playing with any sense of urgency at all.
    there is potential on this team but not a whole lot of it has been exhibited on a consistent basis so far this season. there are still many games to go so that is a good thing.

  • The last ten seconds of this first half was HORRID!!! I have not seen this team play any half court basketball this year. If they can't run they are toast!

  • I think this team can be quite good at home but I am not expecting much on the road. There is just something missing which is too bad since it seems like a good group of kids but the chemistry is not there.

  • Not a single player other than DT can score more than 6 pts? This team sucks. For the first time since he's been here, I'm really doubting Thad. His recruiting in recent years is substandard. Does he miss Groce that much?

  • The problem with Ross is he has difficulty guarding smaller and quicker forwards on the defensive side of the ball. That is why he doesn't play in the game that much. Right now the Ross is averaging 8 points in 17 minutes of playing time. He will get his opportunity to play next season after Deshaun possibly leaves for the NBA. Frankly, I wish Ross could guard smaller forwards and it would lead Sam Thompson as the 7th or 8th man off the bench.
    When DT scores half the points versus MSU. Ross isn't going to get alot of paying time. Ross got some playing time versus MSU due to MSU playing Nix and Payne at the same time. There were a lot of mismatches there with Dawson in the mix as well. Let's face facts. Most diehard Buckeye basketball fans knew at the very beginning of the season, this team is a defensive team and challenged offensviely in the half court. Matta and staff know these things so they have to use their defense to create offensive opportunities.
    MSU's Breslin Center is an extremely hard place to play in Big Ten hoops. Buckeyes did what they could and they played a hellua alot better than they did versus Illinois.

    Buckeyes need to improve on their half court offense. Buckeyes were too stagnant in their half court sets. Matta's past offensive schemes thrive on a dominant post player getting high low touches down low and kicking out to the perimeter players. Buckeyes don't have that option in Amir Williams and Evan Ravenel. Buckeyes are not a good perimeter shooting team overall other than Deshaun Thomas. The four other OSU players need to contribute offense to balance the load. You cannot have a point guard only have six points and four turnovers in thirty eight minutes of play. Lenzelle Smith needs to sit on the bench against a good team. He doesn't show up versus good teams. Scott and Craft have good qualities in a point guard but their offensive shooting game is sorely lacking. Sam Thompson needs to develop a mid range game and he needs to be able to attack the rim off the bounce. Sam Thompson misses too many free throws for a guard/forward. This Buckeye team will be a twenty plus win team. I don't know if this current Buckeye team will win the Big Ten but most of the time their defense keeps them in the game. Buckeyes are getting better but their shooting needs drastic improvement. Three tough road games ahead for OSU in Michigan, Indiana and UW. OSU should be able to beat everyone else on their schedule.

    Village Buckeye "hope" means future in your previous comments about Williams.

    This post was edited by buckibball4ever 15 months ago

  • William Buford's shooting versus Kentucky pretty much loss that game at 2-16 from the field. B.J. Mullens was a supposed five star prospect who was overrated from the start and he got beat by ultraskinny center from Siena in the NCAA tournament game. That kid had like 15 rebounds over Mullens. Ross had a decent game versus Duke but again he has a difficult time guarding smaller, quicker guards/forwards like Curry, Sulaimon. Ross needs to step up his defensive intensity and he will play longer minutes. Cook had a few good games but he cooled off at the end of the season. Matta averages almost 28 wins a season. You don't win that many games without making adjustments. Matta is fully capable of chewing gum and making adjustments at the same time. This year's team is a poor offensive halr court team but a good to great defensive team. It reminds me of the Florida State teams from a few seasons ago that went to the Sweet Sixteen and the Elite Eight.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFh5FzXIeBg