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This team is wore out

  • Matta's methods of substitutions and horrile development of players has this team shot!

    signature image

    FredFlintsone

  • Agreed. Great start to the second half though. Still a chance.

    (I have to keep telling myself that, no matter how little I believe it)

    VillBuckeye

  • Was a good start until MSU woke up. back to back turnovers. Awesome. Sullinger is playing bad people. Very bad.

    Chuman

  • Chuman said...

    Was a good start until MSU woke up. back to back turnovers. Awesome. Sullinger is playing bad people. Very bad.

    I don't think Sully is a first round pick....based on what if you judge him on this season.

    odan rot

  • FredFlintsone said...

    Matta's methods of substitutions and horrile development of players has this team shot!

    look out here comes 100 downvotes for your opinion

    This post was edited by LegalAlien on 3/4/2012 at 4:39 PM

    signature image signature image signature image

    LegalAlien

  • There is no movement on offense.

    Chuman

  • No one should get mad over a Matta coached team.
    It's the same ball play every year.
    No toughness. Lax play at times. Under achievers. But not new.
    Matta is no Williams, Coach K, or Calipari who gets the most out of freshmen each year.
    But, Matta will be here for a long time. He wins 20 games a year and that's enough.
    Enjoy the 2008 NIT banner.
    Matta is the Coach Cooper and tressel of BB.

    Thank goodness college football is around 12 months a year now.
    Especially, with off season recruiting with Yrban Meyer.

    djjonesy

  • djjonesy said...

    No one should get mad over a Matta coached team. It's the same ball play every year. No toughness. Lax play at times. Under achievers. But not new. Matta is no Williams, Coach K, or Calipari who gets the most out of freshmen each year. But, Matta will be here for a long time. He wins 20 games a year and that's enough. Enjoy the 2008 NIT banner. Matta is the Coach Cooper and tressel of BB.

    Thank goodness college football is around 12 months a year now. Especially, with off season recruiting with Yrban Meyer.

    college football 12 months a year?????? I rather pay attention to basketball this time of year instead of worthless recruiting info and spring ball.

    odan rot

  • djjonesy said...

    No one should get mad over a Matta coached team. It's the same ball play every year. No toughness. Lax play at times. Under achievers. But not new. Matta is no Williams, Coach K, or Calipari who gets the most out of freshmen each year. But, Matta will be here for a long time. He wins 20 games a year and that's enough. Enjoy the 2008 NIT banner. Matta is the Coach Cooper and tressel of BB.

    Thank goodness college football is around 12 months a year now. Especially, with off season recruiting with Yrban Meyer.

    Tressel won a NC and more BCS games than any coach ever!
    Yur dumb

    signature image

    FredFlintsone

  • wookiebarker said...

    look out here comes 100 downvotes for your opinion

    I gave oden rot a down vote cause he's Tornado Zadar(Bruce Hooley)....and it was fun!

    tommyq

  • djjonesy said...

    No one should get mad over a Matta coached team. It's the same ball play every year. No toughness. Lax play at times. Under achievers. But not new. Matta is no Williams, Coach K, or Calipari who gets the most out of freshmen each year. But, Matta will be here for a long time. He wins 20 games a year and that's enough. Enjoy the 2008 NIT banner. Matta is the Coach Cooper and tressel of BB.

    Thank goodness college football is around 12 months a year now. Especially, with off season recruiting with Yrban Meyer.

    Boy Coach K looksd pretty good last night...A beatdown by 20 at home, No coach is perfect....Matta has Been Head Coach at Butler,Xavier and TOSU and has won 14 Rings in 16 yrs. as Regular Season Champs or Conference Tourny Champs...He's far from Coop...All he does is win

    tommyq

  • Man MSU looked wore out the last 5-7 minutes of the game.....Geeze, they played 9 or 10 guys and they should play everyone on their roster because they were worn out! They gave up a 15 point lead to a bunch of bumbs that have can't shoot, play defense and have a senior who can't make a shot in the clutch. Izzo is a horrible coach, didn't make any changes to his motion offense, which he always runs.

    In all seriousness, Coach Izzo is a great coach! He has run the same basic motion plays for the last 15 years and has coached defense the same way his entire career. He wins because he is who he is. Coach Matta is who he is and WINS BECAUSE OF IT!

    whvball

  • FredFlintsone said...

    Matta's methods of substitutions and horrile development of players has this team shot!

    Wouldn`t it be more like;
    This team is worn out?
    What is "horrile"? Do you mean horrible?

    bukweat

  • FredFlintsone said...

    Matta's methods of substitutions and horrile development of players has this team shot!

    I'm sick about reading about how people are upset with Matta's substitution methods. Did they not win the game? What is Mattas record like? The guy wins and knows how to win. He plays the best 5, period. The rest of the team needs to work hard in practice and they can get time. Buford did not look tired on that game winning shot.

    Stop with the whining

    canadabuck10

  • canadabuck10 said...

    I'm sick about reading about how people are upset with Matta's substitution methods. Did they not win the game? What is Mattas record like? The guy wins and knows how to win. He plays the best 5, period. The rest of the team needs to work hard in practice and they can get time. Buford did not look tired on that game winning shot.

    Stop with the whining

    EXACTLY.

    The only time the substitution pattern should come into criticism is if there is foul trouble, and the guy who comes into the game shows he is not capable of holding down the fort. We saw an example yesterday with Ravenel, and he did a tremendous job.

    College basketball athletes should not be getting tired. There are FOUR media timeouts throughout each half, along with the other chances to rest (timeouts, fouls, obligatory monitor check each game by the referees).

    These guys have grown up playing AAU ball where you play 5, 6, 7 games, or more, in a weekend. Add on the fact that they have top-notch S&C coaches and workouts throughout the offseason. They are in peak condition.

    The best five should be on the court. If you don't have a "top 5" and have a bunch of equally talented players, then spread out the minutes. I believe we have seen this season that is not the case with Ohio State. There is a top 6-7, and several others who get a chance to contribute when the situation calls for it. MOST top college teams do it the same way...

    This post was edited by RonnyD on 3/5/2012 at 12:11 PM

    RonnyD

  • RonnyD said...

    EXACTLY.

    The only time the substitution pattern should come into criticism is if there is foul trouble, and the guy who comes into the game shows he is not capable of holding down the fort. We saw an example yesterday with Ravenel, and he did a tremendous job.

    College basketball athletes should not be getting tired. There are FOUR media timeouts throughout each half, along with the other chances to rest (timeouts, fouls, obligatory monitor check each game by the referees).

    These guys have grown up playing AAU ball where you play 5, 6, 7 games, or more, in a weekend. Add on the fact that they have top-notch S&C coaches and workouts throughout the offseason. They are in peak condition.

    The best five should be on the court. If you don't have a "top 5" and have a bunch of equally talented players, then spread out the minutes. I believe we have seen this season that is not the case with Ohio State. There is a top 6-7, and several others who get a chance to contribute when the situation calls for it. MOST top college teams do it the same way...

    I respectfully disagree. Although he hit the huge baseline jumper yesterday and was real solid down the stretch, I think Craft's offense has suffered this season because he is expending too much energy on defense and running the point. We've seen him breakdown late in a few games.

    This might have also been part of the problem with Buford's inconsistent shooting this year as well, although he was absolutely spectacular yesterday. A guy needs a certain amount of gas left in the tank for free throws and outside shots. I don't know where Buford got the energy, but look at how he elevated on the game winner yesterday.

    In a previous thread we looked at minutes per game and found that the 3 best teams over the last decade had solid 7-man rotations, where the 7 got at least 15 minutes per game. This seemed to be the magic number. We were actually closer to that last season than we are right now as Lauderdale and DeShaun Thomas were both around 15 minutes per game.

    Ravenel, Scott, and Thompson are around 10 last I checked. I think we need to get these three, especially Scott, up to the 15 minute mark.

    JAG24

  • FredFlintsone said...

    Matta's methods of substitutions and horrile development of players has this team shot!

    I don't think David Lighty or John Diebler would agree. Lots of one and dones not exactly Matta fault. How many championships has Calipari won with all the talent he recruits. Matta does nothing but win at a football school. He has this team in contention year end and year out and that has never ever happened before.. MSU looked like the tired team to me at the end!

    signature image signature image signature image

    There is one at every party, thought that's why you invited me!

    bleedscarlet

  • JAG24 said...

    I respectfully disagree. Although he hit the huge baseline jumper yesterday and was real solid down the stretch, I think Craft's offense has suffered this season because he is expending too much energy on defense and running the point. We've seen him breakdown late in a few games.

    This might have also been part of the problem with Buford's inconsistent shooting this year as well, although he was absolutely spectacular yesterday. A guy needs a certain amount of gas left in the tank for free throws and outside shots. I don't know where Buford got the energy, but look at how he elevated on the game winner yesterday.

    In a previous thread we looked at minutes per game and found that the 3 best teams over the last decade had solid 7-man rotations, where the 7 got at least 15 minutes per game. This seemed to be the magic number. We were actually closer to that last season than we are right now as Lauderdale and DeShaun Thomas were both around 15 minutes per game.

    Ravenel, Scott, and Thompson are around 10 last I checked. I think we need to get these three, especially Scott, up to the 15 minute mark.

    I think it depends on your players and how many minutes the 'bench' players can play at their highest level. Ravenel played 8 minutes (per espn box score) and they were the best 8 minutes he's played all year. Scott played 7 minutes and did well as did Thompson (although espn has him committing 3 TO's, which I only remember one). But I'm not sure you get better results if they play more. Bench players are role players. They do what they need to do and if they are out there for much more than expected, they have diminishing returns. I don't think there is a ''magic number'' of players to play and how many minutes they play. Some years it might be a 6 man rotation, some years a 9 man rotation. Depends on the team.

    Izzo has played the same offensive sets for years and it's mostly motion offense. It's easier to 'plug and play' in a system offense (another example would be Wisconsin) than it is where the offense is built around the players.

    This post was edited by whvball on 3/5/2012 at 1:43 PM

    whvball

  • JAG24 said...

    I respectfully disagree. Although he hit the huge baseline jumper yesterday and was real solid down the stretch, I think Craft's offense has suffered this season because he is expending too much energy on defense and running the point. We've seen him breakdown late in a few games.

    This might have also been part of the problem with Buford's inconsistent shooting this year as well, although he was absolutely spectacular yesterday. A guy needs a certain amount of gas left in the tank for free throws and outside shots. I don't know where Buford got the energy, but look at how he elevated on the game winner yesterday.

    In a previous thread we looked at minutes per game and found that the 3 best teams over the last decade had solid 7-man rotations, where the 7 got at least 15 minutes per game. This seemed to be the magic number. We were actually closer to that last season than we are right now as Lauderdale and DeShaun Thomas were both around 15 minutes per game.

    Ravenel, Scott, and Thompson are around 10 last I checked. I think we need to get these three, especially Scott, up to the 15 minute mark.

    I understand and respect your point, but I think you need to cite when/how things have actually happened during the course of a game for it to be a "fatigue" issue.

    When Buford, Thomas, Craft, etc. have been off, they've been off the entire game. It's not as if they shoot well in the first half, but can't make a shot in the second. Far from it. It has been a game-long issue, and normally rears its head early in the game, rather than late. And on the contrary, we have seen Buford get hot in the second halves of games after unspectacular starts (Purdue, Michigan State, Wisconsin games).

    The inconsistency, to me, has more to do with a "mental" issue - selfishness, not valuing the ball properly (bad shots, turnovers), getting lackadaisical on certain defensive possessions, being overly concerned with the refereeing - than fatigue.

    I'm sure we will agree to disagree, and that's fine. At least we have enough people interested in and supporting this team that we can argue over these things!

    RonnyD

  • Just glad some of the kids (Ravanel, Buford, Thomas) picked the team up when they needed it most.

    Razorback

  • whvball said...

    I think it depends on your players and how many minutes the 'bench' players can play at their highest level. Ravenel played 8 minutes (per espn box score) and they were the best 8 minutes he's played all year. Scott played 7 minutes and did well as did Thompson (although espn has him committing 3 TO's, which I only remember one). But I'm not sure you get better results if they play more. Bench players are role players. They do what they need to do and if they are out there for much more than expected, they have diminishing returns. I don't think there is a ''magic number'' of players to play and how many minutes they play. Some years it might be a 6 man rotation, some years a 9 man rotation. Depends on the team.

    Izzo has played the same offensive sets for years and it's mostly motion offense. It's easier to 'plug and play' in a system offense (another example would be Wisconsin) than it is where the offense is built around the players.

    Keep in mind that Ravenel probably wouldn't even have gotten the 8 minutes had Sullinger not been in foul trouble. I do think Ravenel, being an older and more experienced player, can play shorter stints and contribute. But it's much harder to expect a freshman to be thrown in for a few minutes here or there and play roles per say. These guys needed minutes to gain experience, work through mistakes, learn that the coach has confidence in them, and to be reactive as opposed to over-thinking. Playing a guy in garbage minutes doesn't count. I really believe you need to give a guy stretches of quality minutes in close games to see what he can do.

    We have been debating Matta's lack of using the bench all season. He's not going to change his ways at this point. He will ride the horses that got him there, for better or worse. I still believe he is trying to get Scott more minutes to allow Craft to play the 2-guard and add a much needed outside shotting threat because Buford and Thomas are too streaky. Matta trusts Scott to take care of the ball and play defense, which in turn, can allow Craft to conserve some energy. He knows we are one cold night by Buford and Thomas away from getting bounced in the tournament and he needs Craft to be able to hit some shots and contribute.

    JAG24

  • RonnyD said...

    I understand and respect your point, but I think you need to cite when/how things have actually happened during the course of a game for it to be a "fatigue" issue.

    When Buford, Thomas, Craft, etc. have been off, they've been off the entire game. It's not as if they shoot well in the first half, but can't make a shot in the second. Far from it. It has been a game-long issue, and normally rears its head early in the game, rather than late. And on the contrary, we have seen Buford get hot in the second halves of games after unspectacular starts (Purdue, Michigan State, Wisconsin games).

    The inconsistency, to me, has more to do with a "mental" issue - selfishness, not valuing the ball properly (bad shots, turnovers), getting lackadaisical on certain defensive possessions, being overly concerned with the refereeing - than fatigue.

    I'm sure we will agree to disagree, and that's fine. At least we have enough people interested in and supporting this team that we can argue over these things!

    I can't really give you a good answer, this is more of a gut opinion.

    Fatigue is tough to measure. It is both physical and mental. Missed free throws late in a game, poor shot selection, turnovers, getting beat on defense, whining to the refs, and the other problems you cite can also be signs of fatigue. In other words, the "selfishness" you see is - at least in part - a sympton of fatigue and poor team chemistry that can be caused by a perception among bench players that they aren't getting a fair shake.

    Did you see VCU last night? The "Havoc 2.0" full court man-to-man pressure they run is absolutely killer. That would have worked wonders for us as we have the depth and athleticism to do something like that. It would have forced Matta to use the bench and given 11 substantial playing time.

    JAG24

  • JAG24 said...

    Keep in mind that Ravenel probably wouldn't even have gotten the 8 minutes had Sullinger not been in foul trouble. I do think Ravenel, being an older and more experienced player, can play shorter stints and contribute. But it's much harder to expect a freshman to be thrown in for a few minutes here or there and play roles per say. These guys needed minutes to gain experience, work through mistakes, learn that the coach has confidence in them, and to be reactive as opposed to over-thinking. Playing a guy in garbage minutes doesn't count. I really believe you need to give a guy stretches of quality minutes in close games to see what he can do.

    We have been debating Matta's lack of using the bench all season. He's not going to change his ways at this point. He will ride the horses that got him there, for better or worse. I still believe he is trying to get Scott more minutes to allow Craft to play the 2-guard and add a much needed outside shotting threat because Buford and Thomas are too streaky. Matta trusts Scott to take care of the ball and play defense, which in turn, can allow Craft to conserve some energy. He knows we are one cold night by Buford and Thomas away from getting bounced in the tournament and he needs Craft to be able to hit some shots and contribute.

    Have you seen any of these conference championship games? They are just flat out great to watch! It would be a shame if the NCAA did away with the automatic qualifier.

    Ok back on topic. I'll agree with you that there is no replacement for PT experience from a game, especially in closer games when things are tight and actually matter. But if the player isn't excelling in the game-like situations in practice, they definitely aren't going to do well in games when it's tougher, faster and added pressure. If a player subs in and just get's man-handled, it's going to kill his confidence. A little philosophical/theoretical, but I think it's a great conversation/debate. ha

    I like bringing Scott in also and I think Scott is to the point in his development that he can have a positive impact on the outcome of the game. Like you said, when guys like Buford/Thomas/Smith are streaky, it's good to have another option in Craft (although he can be as streaky as anybody :).

    Go Bucks!

    whvball

  • Have you seen Scott's last few games? He has been terrible. I knew he could not shoot but he is turnover prone. Not a good characteristic for a point guard. I don't see him take to the hoop and actually convert much either. He has a long way to go. If Thompson could only score a little he would merit serious playing time.

    BlueHenBuckeye

  • Brad53 said...

    Have you seen Scott's last few games? He has been terrible. I knew he could not shoot but he is turnover prone. Not a good characteristic for a point guard. I don't see him take to the hoop and actually convert much either. He has a long way to go. If Thompson could only score a little he would merit serious playing time.

    Scott has been in foul trouble and has appeared tenative at the point over the last couple games. He really doesn't need to score, but I agree we cannot have him in there if he turns the ball over. Number one, we need him to take care of the ball and make good passes. He needs to play tough defense, get in passing lanes and use his hands to disrupt offensive flow of the opponents.

    Again, the point of using Scott is to allow Craft to move to the 2-guard spot and to conserve some energy for the offensive end.

    Thompson also appears tenative on offense. He would be well served to focus on defense and rebounding, but we need him to at least be able to hit a short jump shot or get an offensive put back. Even a couple buckets would really help.

    JAG24