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What we can do to WIN with this team

  • There's a lot of criticism about the past month and a half or so of OSU's basketball season, and some of it may hold water. However, the tournament field is extremely weak this season, with only a few elite teams out there (UK, Syracuse, etc). Thus, we should be able to make a deep run with some momentum from the last few games and the Big Ten Tournament. Since this isn't a video game and we can't "play the bench more", I'd like to hear some ideas on what OSU can do with the current rotations that Thad Matta employs. Here are some thoughts I have....

    The starting five is fairly effective-Craft, Smith, Buford, Thomas & Sullinger. Buford, Thomas, and Sullinger are threats from anywhere on the court, however, they haven't figured out how to move when Sullinger gets the ball in the post. I'm surprised we never try the pick and roll with Craft or Buford and Sullinger, while playing Thomas in the post. Sure, Thomas can get hot from three, but he's an extremely talented post player that rarely gets plays called for him inside. If we were to move Sullinger's man out (he would have to respect the pick and pop jumpshot for Sullinger), it would open the paint for Thomas, who's been our best option on offense the past month and a half.

    When Buford or Smith get in foul trouble, our production drops significantly. The rotation that Matta has employed recently to spell Sullinger and Buford/Smith is Scott, Craft, Thompson, Thomas, and Ravenel. The notion that Thompson and Scott will somehow magically become 3 pt shooters is a fallacy-they need an entire summer to work and improve on it, it's not something that you use game experience to learn. With Craft's improved shooting it's OK to put him at the 2-guard, but Thompson is nothing more than a supremely athletic player. I think with this line-up you still ride Thomas, whether he's the pick and roll man or posting down low, he needs touches. Scott and Thompson have no jumpshot, and Ravenel can rebound. Thus, I think Scott needs to use his quickness as the primary ballhandler, with Thompson roaming for putbacks.

    ***Again, saying that "Ross or Williams need more PT" is not an acceptable suggestion. Ross has practiced maybe a month and a half with the team, and Williams is an extremely raw post player. However, I'd like to know what happened with Sibert. Although streaky, I've actually witnessed him make a few three pt shots (can't say that for Scott or Thompson), and he has the athleticism to play effective defense.

    So what's our best plan of attack with our young bench? The Craft/Scott tandem is interesting, with a Princeton style attack from both sides with two primary ball handlers, but no outside threats. Maybe we go small with Scott/Craft/Buford/Thompson/Sullinger? Would like to hear your guy's thoughts, looking at a mock bracket OSU seems to be the most talented team for the first few rounds.....

    osubuckeye43

  • There are as you say only a few elite teams out there; however, there are at least 20 teams capable of one heck of a run. Our Bucks need a few things to happen......1-stay incredibly intense on defense 2-run 3-run some more 4-substitute regularly 5-keep running. Sibert needs more playing time period, the whole bench almost does. We have a lot of "good" players and our starters are only good when they are on the floor too much. They are enough steps ahead of the bench they need most of the minutes but c'mon. Fresh legs are needed due to lack of anyone being able to be consistent with 3's. For the last month teams know how to play us, run around milking clock and just take good shots. We have fallen right in with them.

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    Jacksonville Florida's biggest Buckeye fan!

    mdmmcs

  • I agree with running more when we sub. I think our athletes on the bench can run, and it would give us some easy baskets in transition. We're one of the youngest teams in the Big Ten, with only 1 senior (Buford) and 1 junior (Ravenel). I do wonder why Sibert isn't in- Is he in the doghouse? Initially, he seemed to understand his defensive assignment and could make some shots (granted 13-50 from 3 pt isn't that great), but Sam Thompson is 1-12 from 3 pt and Shannon Scott is 1-16 from 3 pt! So out of our raw bench, it would probably be reasonable to give Sibert and J.D. Witherspoon some PT. Amir Williams gets abused on the block and Ross isn't there yet, though he seems to have a frame to build on.

    Maybe we press more on defense to get some turnovers? Craft is the best on-ball defender in America, why not have him pester the ballhandler with traps on either side?

    osubuckeye43

  • After Syracuse and Kentucky their are a PLETHORA of teams that could do some damage in the tourney....

    Sorry...but I do not have confidence in this OSU team to make any kind of run. The last month of this season has glaringly showed our inconsistencies and weaknesses.......we have all been screaming to play the bench more to no avail.

    Many have been thinking we could turn it around but they beat a bad team then the next game they go back to doing stupid things.

    I HOPE they pull it together but I am not holding my breath......

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    bcroft

  • osubuckeye43 said...

    There's a lot of criticism about the past month and a half or so of OSU's basketball season, and some of it may hold water. However, the tournament field is extremely weak this season, with only a few elite teams out there (UK, Syracuse, etc). Thus, we should be able to make a deep run with some momentum from the last few games and the Big Ten Tournament. Since this isn't a video game and we can't "play the bench more", I'd like to hear some ideas on what OSU can do with the current rotations that Thad Matta employs. Here are some thoughts I have....

    The starting five is fairly effective-Craft, Smith, Buford, Thomas & Sullinger. Buford, Thomas, and Sullinger are threats from anywhere on the court, however, they haven't figured out how to move when Sullinger gets the ball in the post. I'm surprised we never try the pick and roll with Craft or Buford and Sullinger, while playing Thomas in the post. Sure, Thomas can get hot from three, but he's an extremely talented post player that rarely gets plays called for him inside. If we were to move Sullinger's man out (he would have to respect the pick and pop jumpshot for Sullinger), it would open the paint for Thomas, who's been our best option on offense the past month and a half.

    When Buford or Smith get in foul trouble, our production drops significantly. The rotation that Matta has employed recently to spell Sullinger and Buford/Smith is Scott, Craft, Thompson, Thomas, and Ravenel. The notion that Thompson and Scott will somehow magically become 3 pt shooters is a fallacy-they need an entire summer to work and improve on it, it's not something that you use game experience to learn. With Craft's improved shooting it's OK to put him at the 2-guard, but Thompson is nothing more than a supremely athletic player. I think with this line-up you still ride Thomas, whether he's the pick and roll man or posting down low, he needs touches. Scott and Thompson have no jumpshot, and Ravenel can rebound. Thus, I think Scott needs to use his quickness as the primary ballhandler, with Thompson roaming for putbacks.

    ***Again, saying that "Ross or Williams need more PT" is not an acceptable suggestion. Ross has practiced maybe a month and a half with the team, and Williams is an extremely raw post player. However, I'd like to know what happened with Sibert. Although streaky, I've actually witnessed him make a few three pt shots (can't say that for Scott or Thompson), and he has the athleticism to play effective defense.

    So what's our best plan of attack with our young bench? The Craft/Scott tandem is interesting, with a Princeton style attack from both sides with two primary ball handlers, but no outside threats. Maybe we go small with Scott/Craft/Buford/Thompson/Sullinger? Would like to hear your guy's thoughts, looking at a mock bracket OSU seems to be the most talented team for the first few rounds.....

    Sibert might be injured and that's why he hasn't been playing in games. Thompson beat out Sibert so it's easy to say that Sibert will likely transfer next season to a MAC school. Matta never uses his bench unless there's foul trouble. Matta hardly ever uses timeouts in games.
    Buckeye's success depends on whether Buford, Thomas or Sullinger are hitting their shots. You have to have two out of these three players to make at least twenty or more points for OSU to win. The only thing I liked about the Northwestern game was Craft had 14 points and Smith had 12 points in the game. This needs to keep up. These guys need to keep this up for OSU to have a great shot at winning. OSU has to play better and communicate with one another on the court. Craft must become assertive and tell these guys what the hell to do on the court in other words he must become a leader.
    Buford is a streak shooter, he was 3-10 versus NU. Hopefully, he will produde versus MSU but that is highly unlikely. He should hit his shots versus MSU but they are good competition. Buford doesn't produce versus good competition.
    Scott and Thompson need to have some coaching from the assistant coaches. Both of these guys are way too athletic not to score points. Teach these guys how to shoot. Perhaps these guys are doing something wrong mechanic standpoint. Buckeyes are an average team right now and beating an average NU team doesn't mean much with only a two point win. Buckeyes beat NU by 25 points at the Schott a month ago and eke out a two point win.

    Need to play Williams over Ravenel but it will never happen this season. I hope Matta gets Tony Parker out of Lithonia, Georgia next season if Sully leaves or doesn't leave. All the shooting guards are gone right now. I would love to see Marc Loving graduate from High school one year early and play for OSU next season.

    buckibball4ever

  • If sibert truly is hurting why wouldn't Thad say as much during his weekly press conference.. Otherwise, people just assumes he sucks or is in a permanent dog house which would both be false if he was truly injured. He had a sheet load of mins early on to prove his worth though and he was an absolute brick house from the outside which was supposed to be his specialty. Thad better hope he doesn't transfer because with no 2012 recruits the roster will be devoid of guards.

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    MannekenPis

  • I think a complete shift in thinking must occur. Make Thomas the focal point of the offense instead of Sullinger. Several times this year Matta has run plays that look like a modified triangle offense. (Probably put in by Jent). In this set Thomas is given the ball at a high post just outside of the free throw line. Every single time it seems to produce points. Either he turns to take an easy jumper or the defense reacts and he makes a good pass for an easy shot. Sullinger and Buford are usually at opposite sides of the paint during this set creating the triangle. It has been very successful whenever it is called.

    Also, we need to consider what truly happens when we throw the ball in to Sullinger:
    A. He turns and puts up a contested shot hoping for a foul call.
    B. The defense sags and he does not react fast enough causing a turnover.(10 in 1 game)
    C. He kicks it out to our non jump shooters to re set and try again.
    D. He becomes frustrated and picks up a charge call.
    E. He actually is fouled, but misses the free throws lately.
    F. HE ACTUALLY TURNS AND MAKES A BASKET.

    That is 6 possible outcomes with only one being good. It has become brutal to watch. Once you reach the Sweet 16, the average post player will be longer with more skill. IMO, in the Big Ten only MSU has the kind of post players that the better teams will have in the tourney.

    Now when Thomas has the ball, more often than not, something good happens. Over the last few weeks, he has been our most consistent scoring threat and his defense has picked up.(No worse than Sullingers). He scores inside and out, hustles for rebounds and keeps his composure. When he is "on" he is unstoppable. He gets his shot up too quick to double team.

    I'm not saying he is a better player than Sully, just saying ride the hot hand. This would let Sullinger be more George Reese than Greg Oden. I'm just tired of the whole throw the ball in to Sullinger and everyone stand around watching to see what happens.

    VillBuckeye

  • need to made a trade with kentucky. i mean they pay for their players so cant we trade for them?

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    great2belucky

  • The way the team has been playing lately I definitely don't have too much confidence that they'll get past the first few rounds but some suggestions I would offer are:

    1. I don't like playing zone defense, but it has become obvious that this team struggles with playing consistent man-to-man. They are good in stretches but then seem to fall apart once they start getting tired. Playing zone will also help keep players fresh since we know Thad has no intentions of subbing much. Since we have not done it all this year I don't feel that this team can successfully switch over to zone, takes time and feel.
    2. I think Thad will continue to feed Sully in the post and run a significant amount of the offense through him. That said, I think that Sullinger needs to make quicker decisions and not hold the ball. He clearly is waiting to see what the defense is going to do which is not a bad thought, it just seems as though he usually gets himself in a position to where he turns it over, takes a bad shot, or has to pass the ball. The last shot against Northwestern is a good example of getting the ball and making an immediate move before the defense has a chance to sag or double team.
    3. I read somewhere Buford saying that when he is struggling with his shooting he just keeps chucking it up knowing that they will eventually start falling. That seems like a selfish way of thinking. A team only gets so many possessions in a game, if you're not on either start taking it to the hoop more or QUIT SHOOTING!!! I get so frustrated watching Buford and sometimes Thomas continue to shoot jumpers when they're ice cold. You could tell in the game at Michigan that Thad was also frustrated at Buford and was trying to convey to him that he's not playing smart like a senior should.
    4. The bench minutes are limited, we all know that. But even when the bench is in, there is absolutely zero scoring coming from any of them. If Thad can't find a way to get some sort of production out of them it will be a short tourney run this year. I don't know that there's anything that can be done about this except for those players to take it upon themselves and be smart and aggressive when they are in there.

    ReddOSU2

  • osubuckeye43 said...

    There's a lot of criticism about the past month and a half or so of OSU's basketball season, and some of it may hold water. However, the tournament field is extremely weak this season, with only a few elite teams out there (UK, Syracuse, etc). Thus, we should be able to make a deep run with some momentum from the last few games and the Big Ten Tournament. Since this isn't a video game and we can't "play the bench more", I'd like to hear some ideas on what OSU can do with the current rotations that Thad Matta employs. Here are some thoughts I have....

    The starting five is fairly effective-Craft, Smith, Buford, Thomas & Sullinger. Buford, Thomas, and Sullinger are threats from anywhere on the court, however, they haven't figured out how to move when Sullinger gets the ball in the post. I'm surprised we never try the pick and roll with Craft or Buford and Sullinger, while playing Thomas in the post. Sure, Thomas can get hot from three, but he's an extremely talented post player that rarely gets plays called for him inside. If we were to move Sullinger's man out (he would have to respect the pick and pop jumpshot for Sullinger), it would open the paint for Thomas, who's been our best option on offense the past month and a half.

    When Buford or Smith get in foul trouble, our production drops significantly. The rotation that Matta has employed recently to spell Sullinger and Buford/Smith is Scott, Craft, Thompson, Thomas, and Ravenel. The notion that Thompson and Scott will somehow magically become 3 pt shooters is a fallacy-they need an entire summer to work and improve on it, it's not something that you use game experience to learn. With Craft's improved shooting it's OK to put him at the 2-guard, but Thompson is nothing more than a supremely athletic player. I think with this line-up you still ride Thomas, whether he's the pick and roll man or posting down low, he needs touches. Scott and Thompson have no jumpshot, and Ravenel can rebound. Thus, I think Scott needs to use his quickness as the primary ballhandler, with Thompson roaming for putbacks.

    ***Again, saying that "Ross or Williams need more PT" is not an acceptable suggestion. Ross has practiced maybe a month and a half with the team, and Williams is an extremely raw post player. However, I'd like to know what happened with Sibert. Although streaky, I've actually witnessed him make a few three pt shots (can't say that for Scott or Thompson), and he has the athleticism to play effective defense.

    So what's our best plan of attack with our young bench? The Craft/Scott tandem is interesting, with a Princeton style attack from both sides with two primary ball handlers, but no outside threats. Maybe we go small with Scott/Craft/Buford/Thompson/Sullinger? Would like to hear your guy's thoughts, looking at a mock bracket OSU seems to be the most talented team for the first few rounds.....

    Good post.

    A 3rd outside shooting option is what is direly needed on this team, especially since Buford and Thomas are streak shooters. Craft is our only chance at this late point in the season to fill this role. But it is unrealistic to expect him to play 35-40 minutes per game, handle the ball, break presss, play lights out defense, etc., and have anything left in the gas tank on the offensive end. Fresh legs are critical for outside shooting and free-throw shooting.

    I see Shannon Scott as key. He needs to come in to take pressure off Craft by playing the point, taking care of the ball and playing tenacious defense. I'd say give Scott 10 minutes per game at the point with Craft at the 2-guard spot. Scott should also replace Craft in the the line-up for 5-10 minutes.

    What this means is Scott getting 15-20 minutes per game. Matta has been trying, but so far, Scott has gotten himself in foul trouble. I expect to see Matta try this again on Sunday as I am convinced this is our best strategy for the tournament and will prove to be our only chance at making a deep run as the odds of Buford and/or Thomas going cold are simply too great.

    I wouldn't call this "Princeton" style though, and although I agree pick & roll plays would be effective, Matta is too set in his ways to try tweaking the offense (or defense for that matter). I really think Matta's emphasis is to get Craft to spot and shoot from the outside, particulary 3 pointers. He needs to work off screens or be there for Sullinger to kick-out from a defense that is collapsing on him in the post.

    Thompson needs to get to the rim for some 2nd chance points, but Smith absolutely needs to shoot some and make an offensive contribution, even if its 8 points per game. Both these guys need to maintain focus on the defensive end. Ravenel is only going to be used to spell Sullinger for a few minutes here or there. So unless Sullinger gets foul trouble or injured, Ravenel is playing a small role and I think he is fairly effective at it.

    I agree there is no point continuing to debate Willams, Ross, Sibert or even Weatherspoon. They will only see scrap minutes the rest of way and we may as well save "could of, would of, or should of" arguments for the off season, if or when guys decide to transfer out.

    This post was edited by JAG24 on 3/3/2012 at 9:05 AM

    JAG24

  • Play smart patient Basketball,this team does neither. Buford's bad decisions. Sullinger crying to officials. Craft getting in a hurry on the offensive end.
    This team does not have an abundance of scorers,i think they need to grind games out score in the 50's take what the defense gives them stop firing up the first shot that looks open.
    Play good defense.
    I think last years team was a high powered offense this team is not.

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    FredFlintsone

  • Thad Matta Stinks!!!!! Good recruiter but, 20 game seasons but, that's it.
    The team has had the same MO since he's been here. Enjoy the 2008 NIT banner.
    His teams always lacks toughness and discipline.
    Sully needs to stay. He gets shoved around by bums like last week against Whisky.
    Craft can't shoot and throws the ball away constantly.
    You can't get mad because it was expected.
    Easy loss in season finale. Second round bounce out in the BIg Tourney and 4 or 5 seed then a 43 exit.

    So, its time to consentrate the the FB team and the spring game.
    With Meyer you replaced the same type coaching with Cooper and Tressel.

    djjonesy

  • You are an idiot!

    Westside Buck