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ng164300 said...
I have read articles from people in the intelligence community that say traditional interrogation methods are more effective. They say the information you get from traditional techniques is far more reliable than through torture. Personally I don't care if they torture people or not but there are a lot of people in the know that say it produces a lot of useless information.
60% of the time, it works every time...
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dave1954 said...
The Cons will be the first to scream and yell at our Govt. when the enemy does the same thing to one of ours but they never see the opposite. We "reap what we sow", burning of Korans, Abu Gharib, accidental killings, pictures of body parts, we seem to glance over that because we are fighting terror. Sorry, but we should be more civilized than this.
60% of the time, it works every time...
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Seattlebuckfan
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playmea said...
First off, "torture" is being thrown around too liberally. Generally, if and when torture is used as an interrogation technique, its not used on the guy they actually think they will get information from. Its used on another guy to scare the guy they want to get information from. Or its just to punish.
The United States does not endorse the use of torture. The difference is, we each have our own definitions of torture.
Traditional techniques are what we use the majority of the time today. The topic was "enhanced interrogation techniques". Not "torture". You may surprised to find out that many of our "enhanced" techniques are "traditional". The United States didn't invent this stuff. These techniques have existed for millenia. By comparison, we are tame.
So I think we are discussing two different things.
Enhanced interrogation does not equal "torture"
The United States does not endorse "torture"
We do employ traditional interrogation techniques
Many, if not the majority, of those techniques are also considered "enhanced interrogation"
Some of the most popular methods we employ are things like sleep deprivation and playing annoying music or showing images and scenarios that aren't popular. We pit one guy against another. We isolate. Are these things considered torture? Many think no and many think yes.So lets stop throwing the "torture" word around unless we have a universal agreement on exactly what is torture and what exact techniques we are all referring to. Otherwise, we debating two different things.
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playmea said...
First off, "torture" is being thrown around too liberally. Generally, if and when torture is used as an interrogation technique, its not used on the guy they actually think they will get information from. Its used on another guy to scare the guy they want to get information from. Or its just to punish.
The United States does not endorse the use of torture. The difference is, we each have our own definitions of torture.
Traditional techniques are what we use the majority of the time today. The topic was "enhanced interrogation techniques". Not "torture". You may surprised to find out that many of our "enhanced" techniques are "traditional". The United States didn't invent this stuff. These techniques have existed for millenia. By comparison, we are tame.
So I think we are discussing two different things.
Enhanced interrogation does not equal "torture" The United States does not endorse "torture" We do employ traditional interrogation techniques Many, if not the majority, of those techniques are also considered "enhanced interrogation" Some of the most popular methods we employ are things like sleep deprivation and playing annoying music or showing images and scenarios that aren't popular. We pit one guy against another. We isolate. Are these things considered torture? Many think no and many think yes.
So lets stop throwing the "torture" word around unless we have a universal agreement on exactly what is torture and what exact techniques we are all referring to. Otherwise, we debating two different things.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by McCague on 5/2/2012 at 1:04 PM
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dave1954 said...
The Cons will be the first to scream and yell at our Govt. when the enemy does the same thing to one of ours but they never see the opposite. We "reap what we sow", burning of Korans, Abu Gharib, accidental killings, pictures of body parts, we seem to glance over that because we are fighting terror. Sorry, but we should be more civilized than this.
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McCague said...
Water boarding has always been on the torture list. Therefore it is a war crime. Bush and Cheney admitted it was used under their guidelines. It was included in their definition of "enhanced interrogation techniques." Call waterboarding whatever you want but it is defined as torture by the rest of the world and all sane people. So stop throwing "enhanced interrogation techniques" around so liberally. They admitted they were responsible for a war crime. They were even arrogant about it, especially Cheney. My question is, why haven't they been charged?
BTW, when you said "some of the most popular methods we employ are....." Why didn't you mention waterboarding?
60% of the time, it works every time...
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76farmer
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McCague said...
Water boarding has always been on the torture list. Therefore it is a war crime. Bush and Cheney admitted it was used under their guidelines. It was included in their definition of "enhanced interrogation techniques." Call waterboarding whatever you want but it is defined as torture by the rest of the world and all sane people. So stop throwing "enhanced interrogation techniques" around so liberally. They admitted they were responsible for a war crime. They were even arrogant about it, especially Cheney. My question is, why haven't they been charged?
BTW, when you said "some of the most popular methods we employ are....." Why didn't you mention waterboarding?
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ng164300 said...
I have read articles from people in the intelligence community that say traditional interrogation methods are more effective. They say the information you get from traditional techniques is far more reliable than through torture. Personally I don't care if they torture people or not but there are a lot of people in the know that say it produces a lot of useless information.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by 76farmer on 5/2/2012 at 4:49 PM
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Seattlebuckfan said...
I know a few things from my sons... both of whom are in intel and one who's very high up the intel food chain... water boarding and other forms of extreme torture do not work and did not work... and are illegal and never used now.... however if you watched Homeland and watched some of the techniques used when they captured the person who was a jailer during his interrogation those methods are currently used and do provide information... most terror techniques are strictly hands off.... My other son was an interrogator in an Afghan prison and they went out of their way not to torture but rather to listen and cozy up to the subjects and catch them off guard... Neither son believes the enhanced or extreme torture works or has worked and my son in DC has the highest security clearance any person can have and has done extensive reading of documents and has also done some spying etc in other countries... You don't have to believe this but I have been consistent on here about my kids and these things I'm telling you are true... My son in DC works along side both the NSA, the CIA, and the FBI, and he has the coins to prove it... if any of you were in the military you might know what I'm talking about with the coins.
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Seattlebuckfan said...
I know a few things from my sons... both of whom are in intel and one who's very high up the intel food chain... water boarding and other forms of extreme torture do not work and did not work... and are illegal and never used now.... however if you watched Homeland and watched some of the techniques used when they captured the person who was a jailer during his interrogation those methods are currently used and do provide information... most terror techniques are strictly hands off.... My other son was an interrogator in an Afghan prison and they went out of their way not to torture but rather to listen and cozy up to the subjects and catch them off guard... Neither son believes the enhanced or extreme torture works or has worked and my son in DC has the highest security clearance any person can have and has done extensive reading of documents and has also done some spying etc in other countries... You don't have to believe this but I have been consistent on here about my kids and these things I'm telling you are true... My son in DC works along side both the NSA, the CIA, and the FBI, and he has the coins to prove it... if any of you were in the military you might know what I'm talking about with the coins.
This post was edited by 76farmer on 5/2/2012 at 6:00 PM
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pazbuc said...
Just yesterday you told us that the Seals were sworn to secrecy and would never violate that oath. Now you come on here and tell us your son has the highest security clearance and then you proceed to tell us what he told you. Hmmmm. I have a close friend who has a son doing underwater submarine survelliance and his son tells him nothing. The highest secrecy clearance means you don't talk about anything.
GO PACK GO!!!!! Go Brew Crew!!!!
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76farmer said...
No offense, but i have personally taken more of those coins away from grunts who talked too much than i myself have earned. In any event, your son sounds like he has honorable served his country with pride, and to his father, i say thank you. We had extremely liberal interogation options, but torture was not one of them. Even for the brains with executive directives. Stupid consipracy fucks who have never been down range will never get a clue as to what happens there. They should stick with their Masonic theories... Let us guard your rights to do so...
GO PACK GO!!!!! Go Brew Crew!!!!
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76farmer said...
U slimey fucks down vote this? Seriously, honest, hard working, patriotic, heterosexual dudes cant win with you limp wristed lib dudes. I recycled today. Earned a living which pays for your entitlement fun. I donated to the poor (aside from my taxes). And in a not so recent lifetime (dont be mad at me for not being a selfish, entitled bitch) served my country. Why do you Nancy boys down vote me for envisioning you guys as u are? Seriously? Get balls. Get brains. Get an education. Get initiative. Get pride for your actions. Have a little pride for being an American? You slithering, wimpy fucks deserve each other. No wonder why people like you wonder why people like me pay your government/ big biz/ gov supplemented salary, and can not tolerate you douches. Stop slapping us with your extended, begging, limp hands. I earned mine. You can too if you try... Put out. Don't bitch out.
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playmea said...
You have got to be kidding. If all terrorists were doing was burning the bible and making our captured citizens dance around naked or get water-boarded that would be reaping what we sow. Nobody will like it but we aren't going to scream war crimes.
No, you clearly haven't watched any news. They aren't NEARLY as nice to us. And they never have been. Since before Bush or Reagan. They get a pass every single time that they slice off someone's head on Al Jazeera but somehow we're the bad guys who get what we deserve?
You don't know a damn thing. If you think they are in any way justified slicing off the heads of innocent people simply because we accidentally put pork in their dinner or deprived them of sleep then shame on you! I'm not saying we're the pillar of morality. But you are comparing what we've done versus what they've done and suggesting we deserve this by saying "we reap what we sow"?
You're not just un-American. You are a sick individual with hate in your heart.
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McCague said...
That offensive post was directed at me. 70 years old, and a veteran. I have two sons who are 33 and 31, thus I'm heterosexual. I probably get more women than you do at what, age18. I was willing to let it go until your little tirade. I haven't been noticing down votes, but if anyone down voted you I'm sure it was because of your attitude and not to come to my rescue.
You are the one who should experience water boarding and actually believe you are drowning. You would no doubt change your tune - after you stopped crying like a little girl.
Come to think of it, any of us would be begging and crying for them to stop. It's torture, asshole.
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Enhanced interrogation techniques worked!!!