The Bucknuts Hot Spot

Every word in my post is true. Look it up. If you knew history you would know I was right.

And we saw what resulted with the 2010 mid-term elections.

"The government will break your leg, give you a crutch, and say you couldn't walk without them" - Reagan

3 people supporting something at some point in their careers doesn't make it "Republican." How many Republicans voted for Obamacare? It it were so Republican, it wouldn't have been so devisive. Senator Byrd from WV was in the KKK years ago, that doesn't mean the Democratic party is racist today.

BY DEFINITION, IT IS SOCIALISM. I could care less if it is a GOP or Democratic idea. Its bad regardless, for so many reasons.

For the first time in American history, every citizen will be FORCED to buy a product/service from a PRIVATE company at the point of a fine or jail time. If the federal government has that authority, it could decide all citizens should buy gym memberships, or wear blue on Fridays.

If you have 8 car accidents, should I, who has a clean record, pay higher auto insurance for your bad behavior? If you are 300 lbs because you have chosen to live an unhealthy life style and are sick all of the time, should I have to pay hundreds of dollars for higher premiums for your bad behavior? Where does personal responsibility lie? If you got a your car repaired for free and your premium never went up, why would you care if you wrecked your car? Big deal, someone else would pay for it. Risk based premiums help to change behavior, and keep costs down for everyone.

Want to take a guess when health care costs started soaring? Right when the government decided to interfer, with mandated benefits and community rating in the 1970's with medicare and medicad. Now, the answer is more government? Why can't the market work? Look at health care informed by market forces - elective surgery (lasik, lap band, cosmetic), COSTS have decreased, steadily, while quality has gone up. Just like in any free market. My neighbor paid $6,000 for lasik in 2002, I paid $3,000 last year with a much higher quality laser.

And now Obama is making things 'free' by including them in health insurance like contraception. Why is this an 'insurable' event? That's not insurance, that's a welfare benefit! Do you have any idea how much auto insurance would cost if routine services like oil changes, tire rotations, flat tires, and maintenaince were included for 'free?' Costs will soar! This isn't about insurance, this is about creating new welfare entitlements that will be used without concern because it's now 'free' but will then scream with our premiums go thru the roof.

That's pure socialism. It reminds me of the professor that wanted to give a real world example of socialism to his students. After the first exam, he told the students that everyone would receive the class average, a B-. So the students that worked hard and earned As did not receive the due reward for their hard work, while the students that didn't study and got Ds coasted off the others. Want to guess what the class average was on the next exam? And F, because know one wanted to study since they wouldn't benefit from their own work.

If someone just wants hospital care, doctor visits, medical emergencies and surgeries, and perscription drugs covered, why can't they do that? Why do they have to buy all the other junk, if they don't want it? Do you know that estimates show premiums would cost 30% less for only these basic coverages, which is all most Americans want/need?

And Obamacare enshrines opaqueness into health care permanently. Do you have any idea was its costs when you go to the doctor, or hospital, or have a medical test? No one does. What other product/or service do you by this way? NONE! Imagine going to Best Buy to buy a TV, but there are no price tags. You pick the TV you like, and 2 months later you get a bill for $8,000. You think, are you serious? But oh well, someone else is paying for it, what do I care? Any reform should have included transparency in medical costs so people can actually act like consumers and shop for the best doctors/hospitals for the lowest prices. This would push out waste and put downward pressure on medical costs.

But you do realize the corruption that went into passing this bill. Obama hid the true costs because their were going to be astronomical. Want to see an example of corruption? They scored the bill's costs for 10 years, but waited to start coverage in 2014 so only 6 years were included. But they started the taxes right away and whola, its paid for with new, exorbant taxes. Well the lie has been unveiled by the CBO

Washington Examiner Article:

When President Obama finally persuaded recalcitrant Democrats to vote for his health care regulation law in 2010, the Congressional Budget Office estimated the plan would cost $940 billion over 10 years. Conservatives warned at the time that the score was a mirage since Democrats had purposely designed the law with CBO’s scoring system in mind to get a temporarily lower score.

But now, two years later, a more accurate picture is coming into view. As the CBO’s 10-year budget window slowly expands to encompass all of Obamacare’s new spending, and as gimmicks like the CLASS Act are exposed as the Ponzi scheme frauds that they are, the cost of Obamacare keeps rising. Yesterday, the CBO released its latest cost estimate of Obamacare’s spending provisions showing that the law will cost $1.76 trillion through 2022. But even that doesn’t capture the law’s true price tag.

Since Obamacare will not be fully implemented until 2014, we will not know until next year what a full 10-year cost estimate of the law looks like. But, extrapolating yesterday’s estimate forward, The Washington Examiner‘s Phil Klein predicts the final ten-year cost of Obamacare will exceed $2 trillion, more than double what Obama said it would cost.

And that wasn’t the only bad news in the report. Due to weak job growth, the CBO estimated that 3 million fewer Americans will receive health insurance from their employer. Medicaid will pick up some of that slack, adding an additional 1 million Americans to the welfare rolls. That leaves 2 million fewer Americans insured than the CBO had previously estimated. All told, Obamacare will have spent over $2 trillion increasing the percentage of Americans with health insurance from 82 percent today to 93 percent in 2022. And over half of those who receive health insurance thanks to Obamacare, will do so through Medicaid, a welfare program with a poor track-record of improving health outcomes.

What the hell does your post have to do with the topic at hand?

It doesn't matter. I come here to read about OSU sports, not politics.

Lol...you get the feeling...lol...OMG...for realz??? Sorry being a smart ass. They are bigots, they hate anyone who doesn't look like them! Its just a fact, Bush was the worst president ever...EVER...you never heard a peep out of them. Now, look at them. Obama got Bin Laden, he saved an entire part of the manufacturing base by loaning the auto industry cash. You think Ohio is hurting now...huh, what would have happened if we followed the right wing lead and just let it go away. Half a million high paying jobs...GONE! Talk about raising the deficit, when people cant pay taxes because they dont have jobs. They take money FROM the system, thats how the deficit gets soo big in part!

Anyone have kids in college, arent many jobs out three for them the last few years is there??? Right??? Well because of Obama your kids can have insurance till they are 26 yrs old and all of us as we get older, we cant be kicked off the insurance plans. Try getting insurance when you have a history of cancer or something like that. These are human issues and concerns, not just left or right issues. Bin Laden didnt attack dems or repubs? College kids who cant get jobs after school arent just dems or repubs, the auto industry workers and the ancillary businesses which support it arent all dems or repubs?

Obama hasn't been perfect for sure! But why the asolute gutteral fear and hatred of the man...I can only come to one conclusion as to the reason!!!

Obama must walk on water for sure if you believe all of that.

Curious, when you state that Pres. Obama saved an entire part of the manufacturing base by loaning the auto industry cash, are you refering to the 14 billion dollar loan Bush gave GM and Chrysler before he left office or the extra money and manged bankruptcy that Obama gave GM and the deal to have a Italian company buy Chrysler?

I get confused when people bring up that the current President saved the auto industry when in fact it was a collaborative effort between Bush and Obama that saved 2 auto manufactures but not an entire industry, Ford, Honda, toyota, Hyundai, BMW, VW, Subaru and Kia did not take any money and they all manufacture here in the USA.

Not sure what race has to do with this thread? seems a bit of a reach to me, this thread is about both sides in Washington being hypocrits. it is a fact this was partly a Republican idea from years ago, when they tried to introduce it the Dems were all up in arms and it didnt pass. the Dems adopt the plan and now the republicans are all up in arms, so are you saying the Dems were bigots because Nixon was white? or gingrich was white? not sure i am following the race baiting angle you are working?

ng164300, you are correct!

The individual mandate for health insurance was a Republican idea. Democrats, for the most part, were for universal healthcare. I have been in the health insurance industry for over 25 years, so I know. Although I'm against the individual mandate, it was a Republican idea. The supreme court is probably not going to allow it. They will say it is up to the individual states just like car insurance. Without the mandate, the Affordable Care Act is dead. However, we need to do something to get healthcare cost under control. I'm afraid we are going to be looking at universal healthcare at some point. There are simply too many people without health insurance. When those folks get sick and need medical care, someone has to pay for it.

^^^This. Additionally, some context is appropriate for when liberals accuse others of being for the "same thing" because rarely are people outside their naive world view that irresponsible and foolish.

The below was addressed in another thread:

Don’t Blame Heritage for ObamaCare Mandate
Stuart ButlerFebruary 6, 2012 at 1:40 pm(11)

Is the individual mandate at the heart of “ObamaCare” a conservative idea? Is it constitutional? And was it invented at The Heritage Foundation? In a word, no.
The U.S. Supreme Court will put the middle issue to rest. The answers to the first and last can come from me. After all, I headed Heritage’s health work for 30 years. And make no mistake: Heritage and I actively oppose the individual mandate, including in an amicus brief filed in the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals to the Supreme Court.
Nevertheless, the myth persists. ObamaCare “adopts the ‘individual mandate’ concept from the conservative Heritage Foundation,” Jonathan Alter wrote recently in The Washington Post. MSNBC’s Chris Matthews makes the same claim, asserting that Republican support of a mandate “has its roots in a proposal by the conservative Heritage Foundation.” Former House speaker Nancy Pelosi and others have made similar claims.
The confusion arises from the fact that 20 years ago, I held the view that as a technical matter, some form of requirement to purchase insurance was needed in a near-universal insurance market to avoid massive instability through “adverse selection” (insurers avoiding bad risks and healthy people declining coverage). At that time, President Clinton was proposing a universal health care plan, and Heritage and I devised a viable alternative.
My view was shared at the time by many conservative experts, including American Enterprise Institute (AEI) scholars, as well as most non-conservative analysts. Even libertarian-conservative icon Milton Friedman, in a 1991 Wall Street Journal article, advocated replacing Medicare and Medicaid “with a requirement that every U.S. family unit have a major medical insurance policy.”
My idea was hardly new. Heritage did not invent the individual mandate.
But the version of the health insurance mandate Heritage and I supported in the 1990s had three critical features. First, it was not primarily intended to push people to obtain protection for their own good, but to protect others. Like auto damage liability insurance required in most states, our requirement focused on “catastrophic” costs — so hospitals and taxpayers would not have to foot the bill for the expensive illness or accident of someone who did not buy insurance.
Second, we sought to induce people to buy coverage primarily through the carrot of a generous health credit or voucher, financed in part by a fundamental reform of the tax treatment of health coverage, rather than by a stick.
And third, in the legislation we helped craft that ultimately became a preferred alternative to ClintonCare, the “mandate” was actually the loss of certain tax breaks for those not choosing to buy coverage, not a legal requirement.

The Heritage Foundation did in fact support an individual mandate in the 1990's along with a host of other prominent Republican politicians. http://www.newsmax.com/RonaldKessler/Healthcaremandate-HeritageFoundation-Gingrich-Nixon/2011/06/08/id/399250

You got the problem correct, health care costs are so high, in large part, because too many do not insurance and receive their health care in the much more expensive ER. I would also add that those without insurance have been shown to do very little in terms of preventive medical services, everything from cholesterol to pap smears to taking blood pressure to etc. This means that by the time they are seen in the ER their medical problems are more severe and therefore more expensive then those with insurance who go to their own doctors instead of the ER.

Unfortunately, you got the "cause" mostly wrong. There are 10 to 12 million illegals in the country but there would be almost 60 million in the country who did not have insurance if parts of the AHCA had not already been been initiated. So illegal only represent about 20% of the problem with 4 times more American citizens not having insurance.

So if a large part of the health care problem is almost 20% of Americans were not covered by insurance which means the taxpayer gets stuck with billions of dollars in ER and hospital bills for those people, what would be a sensible solution? How about making those individuals without insurance stop getting a free ride on the backs of us taxpayers and make them assume responsibility for their own health care by buying their own insurance? That was the GOP/Heritage Foundation sensical solution from at least the late 1960s (Nixon) right up to 2008 when Obama was elected.

Except for the public option where a MediCare type program is available to all, the only way to stop the escalating costs that taxpayers pick up for almost 60 million uninsured is to make those 60 million take responsibility and get health insurance.

Couple points Tim

not sure if you seen it but I posted a very good medical article on costs associated with preventative care, where it is really not as cut and dry as come folks like to claim on reducing costs in helath care. my main question is though, where in the present health care law that was passed does it force people to actually go to the Doctor for those Pap smears? blood pressure tests? etc? can you point that out to me?
How many of the current 200 some odd million people that have insurance, practice preventative medicine? how many go for a physical once a year?