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codexp2 said...
+1. I'm tired of lazy Americans stealing from of us.
I'm tired of hearing BS about getting rich off the backs of other Americans. I take more risks, work harder, and sacrifice more than 99% of Americans. That's why I'm in the 1 percent. I make a good living because I want to make a good living.
Spend 10 years in college, leave a 250k job, leverage everything you own, and delay having a family 10 years to start your first business. Only then will I listen to your sob story on how the world isn't fair.
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BucksinWA said...
I defy anyone here to argue that you don't deserve more money for your education, time, sacrifice and hard work than someone who hasn't made the same sacrifices. No one is saying that. But the guy working at Jeep busting his ass on the assembly line to provide for his family is working hard, too. Not a single rational person is saying that guy should make as much as you do.
But let's say a CEO used to make 25 times what a production worker in the company used to make (I am sure there are many different numbers out there). Now that might be 100 times the amount. 100 times. Yes, you worked harder and went to school longer, but I doubt you put in 100 times the amount of work of any of your employees.
I don't know what you pay your employees. If you treat them well and they can support their families and have their slice of the American dream, that is what it's all supposed to be about. If they are on welfare and I am subsidizing them because you don't want to pay them enough so you can drive your Ferrari and live in your mansion, then you are part of the problem and a dickhead.
Which is it?
This post was edited by codexp2 on 4/17/2012 at 5:32 PM
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codexp2 said...
I have been on both ends of the spectrum. I am one of three kids raised by a single mother on a Wal-Mart hourly income. I was one of the poor kids growing up. I hated being poor, so I made sure I could take care of my family. I respect my mother to no end for making the sacrifices she made. All three of us made it through college, I even finished med school.
I will tell you honestly that I work harder than every one of my employees. When my employees go home to their families I'm up all night managing operations in China. I went seven years without a day of vacation. I will never complain, because I've been more than compensated for my time and effort. I actually did the math and in 2011 I made 18x what my highest paid employee earned. Do I do 18x more work? Probably not. Do I take 18x the risk? Absolutely. The '10 year was rough. I went six months without pay, but all of my employees were paid, and everyone still got a cost of living increase. My top earning employees made only slightly less than I did in '10. I am loyal as I can possibly be to my employees, but I often feel that it's not reciprocated. I've had numerous employees violate their non-compete agreements, outright steal my trade secrets and then work for my competitors.
I'm far from a flashy dickhead. I lived in a $900 dollar a month condo and drove a 2002 dodge neon on a seven figure income. Everything I made was risk capital and if I fell on my face nobody was going to save me. If I can't pay a single one of my employees the Ferrari is sold and I'll take a bus to the office.
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Buckeye Warrior
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codexp2 said...
I love how you think everyone in the higher tax brackets stole from you to achieve their success. Why didn't you start a business of you own and create upward mobility for yourself? Why does every democrat think the 1 percent is comprised of nothing but billionaires? An income of 343,000 qualifies you for the 1 percent. I understand most democrats aren't great at math, but there's a significant difference between the two numbers. Try buying a yacht and private jet on 343k, it's not going to happen. There are about 400 billionaires in the United States, the vast majority of the 1 percent work for a living. Most of them have more education and work harder than those in the lower tax brackets. If you're not a millionaire it's easy to say tax the millionaires. If you're a millionaire but not a billionaire it's easy to say tax the billionaires.
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whvball said...
I applaud the Obama's with the amount of charitable donations they make. I think it's fairly incredible that they donate that amount of money and the high percentage of their income that it is. I was simply pointing out that he paid less taxes than his secretary, who makes less than him. When someone like Romney does it, it's a crazy travesty. When the Democratic President does it, they are good people who donate a lot. See my point?
Do you know how much money Romney donated in the year 2011? Look that up then let's talk about donations.
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MCM said...
This is my area of expertise. The Buffet Rule which essentially would establish a federal tax rate of 30% on capital gains would actually result in lower proceeds for the federal government because investors would monetize their investments by other means such and leveraging and gifting (the latter being a deduction). That is why Clinton lowered the rate from 28% to 20% in 1997. Bush went a step further down to 15%. Depending on the multiple of return and state taxes, the point of indifference is in this 15-20% Federal capital gains rate. If you get it too high, then people will actually derive proceeds from gifting which LOWERS FEDERAL TAX RECEIPTS. So a 30% tax rate is counterproductive to the wealthy paying more taxes. In substance it is a Stupid idea but a good populist message. (Google Tax Policy Institute Capital Gains and Taxes paid on capital gains and you will see the pattern on the inverse effect of lower federal capital gains taxes and higher tax receipts summarized by the Brookings Institute and the Urban League-not right wing groups) my bigger problem is that this fits a pattern of ignorance of economics by Obama. I am not sure whether he has a bad team or he just does not listen to them
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Buckeye Warrior said...
What is "Moral" is to let people keep what they earn. I think the argument is going the wrong way. Instead of punishing rich people because they work hard, had innovative idea's, and employ people, why don't we just lower the tax rate for everyone else?
By the way, you think Obama will win the election by 10 points or more. Would you like to make a bet on that? I propose a 1 year voluntary ban for the loser. I take the under. Whoever wins, it will be close. Very close.
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MCM said...
My point is...if the Buffett rule were iimplemented, the wealthy would pay less in taxes (leveraging and then a tax deductible gift) rather than a taxable sale transaction. In terms of morality, I think your analysis is incomplete. Your premise is that the only way people can give to others is through higher taxation when in fact Americans gift approximately $300 billion a year to charity. What is more moral, paying more to government and its various programs (some of which are very good others bad) or gifting to your family or favorate charity. I am in the top 1% of income earners and I actively gift to TOSU and Catholic Charities, two organizations that I love and on balance do better work than our federal government. If I was taxed less I would given more to these organizations. Typically I have given 15-20% of my W-2 income. I am not unusual in that way and yes gifting that money lowers my average federal tax rate to the low 20's. Is that immoral? If instead I spent the money on a Porsche or yacht or illegal drugs then I think you can question my morality. To me its a freedom issue of what I do with the money I earn. How people spent their excess is the question not that they have it.
My other point is that the lower 15% tax rates on Capital Gains is different than a salary because the individual has discretion as to when, how and if to realize a capital gain. the government cannot force a sale so to collect revenue it must not create too great a disincentive. Remember as well, capital gains are from an investment of cash that have already been taxed to the individual so their character is different from wage income.
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codexp2 said...
+1. I'm tired of lazy Americans stealing from of us.
I'm tired of hearing BS about getting rich off the backs of other Americans. I take more risks, work harder, and sacrifice more than 99% of Americans. That's why I'm in the 1 percent. I make a good living because I want to make a good living.
Spend 10 years in college, leave a 250k job, leverage everything you own, and delay having a family 10 years to start your first business. Only then will I listen to your sob story on how the world isn't fair.
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sryan2 said...
And therein is your fatal flaw and concurrently what makes you a quintessential liberal... You believe that successful people are "lucky" as opposed to having earned what they have. While there are exceptions, the significant majority of "the rich" have worked hard, taken risks, sacrificed, competed, and outperformed their peers in order to achieve their goals. When you take those rewards away (i.e. socialism), we will cease to be the land of opportunity.
If my memory serves me correctly, haven't you coached football? If that's the case, do you treat all players the same or do you reward the most talented, hardest working, best producers because they generate results? What you advocate politically is the equivalent of aspiring to be a .500 football team but where everyone gets a trophy for participation (and the best players are ridiculed because they make the others look bad). Urban Meyer would have every liberal wearing lavender jerseys.
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bradly2osu said...
Yes this bill would cut the deficit by 47 billion over 10 years?? So our President is traveling the country on our dime preaching for the last month about this damn bill. How about he puts somthing on the table that will really affect the deficit. How about there "potential savings" over 10 years doesnt even factor in how these millionaires will invest in the economy, will spend more money and add jobs which will create more tax revenue. What is the gov't going to do with this extra money??? I can bet all I have it will not be going to reduce the deficit. Why not focus on creating a budget, somthing that has not happened since Obama has been in office and run this damn country like a buisness instead of like a joy ride. Fuck all the shit people are talking about, the "paying their fair share" "conservatives hate woman" bullshit needs to stop. How about talking about things that make a significant difference to ALL people. Like lowering gas prices, deregulating businesses to lower costs on all goods, fixing healthcare that actually makes a difference in lowering costs as well as still providing excellent care. It seems everything the gov't does is for special interests instead of the interestes of the american citizens. Untill these poeple are out of congress and the presidency this shit hole of an economy with massive deficits will not be getting better.
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The BUFFETT rule doesn't pass.......